[ralphp@optonline]

I might be opening up a can of worms here but....
 
What strikes me as odd is that rather than knock MQA for not being able to exactly reproduce the content of a true high resolution audio file what we really should be asking is does a properly encoded/decoded MQA file sound any better than a standard CD resolution file?
 
Over the years I've found that the high end audio community has a nasty habit of building entire sub-industries out of beliefs that are,at best, unproven and, at worst, scientifically impossible. An example of unproven is expensive after market power cords. An example of scientifically impossible would be the need for expensive digital cables (coax, USB, HDMI, Ethernet, etc.) High resolution digital audio falls into the unproven category but that has not stopped Meridian from developing MQA, which for all intents and purposes may be completely unnecessary - that is until there is solid scientific proof that high resolution digital audio is better than standard CD resolution digital audio.

 

[watchnerd]

  I might be opening up a can of worms here but....
 
What strikes me as odd is that rather than knock MQA for not being able to exactly reproduce the content of a true high resolution audio file what we really should be asking is does a properly encoded/decoded MQA file sound any better than a standard CD resolution file?
 
Over the years I've found that the high end audio community has a nasty habit of building entire sub-industries out of beliefs that are,at best, unproven and, at worst, scientifically impossible. An example of unproven is expensive after market power cords. An example of scientifically impossible would be the need for expensive digital cables (coax, USB, HDMI, Ethernet, etc.) High resolution digital audio falls into the unproven category but that has not stopped Meridian from developing MQA, which for all intents and purposes may be completely unnecessary - that is until there is solid scientific proof that high resolution digital audio is better than standard CD resolution digital audio.

 
Here's the interesting thing about MQA, in terms of listening tests:
 
16/44 vs 24/XX is an apples - apples comparison.  It's all basically "standard" PCM, Redbook or Redbook on steroids.  
 
MQA, on the other hand, has so much other stuff going on that I wouldn't consider comparisons to standard high-resolution a like vs like comparison.
 
It wouldn't shock me at all if people can ABX MQA vs FLAC without too much difficulty given how much manipulation is going on with MQA.
 
As for which they would prefer in a blind test, that would be interesting, indeed.

 

[watchnerd]

  Oh nice!

 
I know, right?  Seriously. It's like 'whoa'. That's how nice it is.

 

[watchnerd]

MQA a "Soup Sandwich"
 
"Right now MQA is like a soup sandwich. Nobody outside of MQA really knows what it is exactly. The message from MQA is hard to understand, partly because it's such a large undertaking. There's the MQA recording studio pieces of the puzzle, the consumer device playback pieces of the puzzle, and the different methods used to create MQA files that sit on a continuum from a white glove process going back to the original master recordings to a much more low-touch process that will likely be used to convert larger catalogs of music, and many other pieces. Talking to manufacturers at CES about MQA was interesting as well. Some were puzzled as to what was going on with MQA while others were surprised to see their names listed as MQA partners on signage at the show. This raised the question of what exactly is an MQA partner. I currently don't have an answer to that question. Then came Friday night at CES. At 5:29 PM I, and other journalists, received the following text message:

"MQA is undergoing "Proof of Concept" with its partners here at CES, and as part of that there will be a small, but important clarification from MQA and AURALiC coming later today...please hold up any coverage of the two partners until the clarification is sent out today."

I don't want to get into the gritty details of what happened, but I believe we are in for more confusion in the coming months."

 

[dcginc]

Just heard MQA files for the first time today at my local hi fi shop where I also bought a mojo as well.

Spent some time listening to The Doors Riders on the Storm via a 100 wpc Moon Audio integrated amp and DAC, Bluesound Node 2 streamer decoding the MQA files on a USB stick driving a pair of stand mounted Focal loudspeakers.

What stunned me was how the drums sounded. You could hear and feel a real three demensional quality to the drum sticks hitting the surface of the drums.

Never heard that from any hi fi rig before. Of course the vocals sounded great, clear, clean, well musical.

I rushed home, fired up Tidal, played Riders on the Storm through my three-way active ATCs. Could not replicate the nuances of the drum kit I heard decoded from MQA in the shop. My mudic sounded flat, very two- dimensional.

Pretty stoked to hear more from the master, Bob Stuart and his MQA magic.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Just heard MQA files for the first time today at my local hi fi shop where I also bought a mojo as well.

Spent some time listening to The Doors Riders on the Storm via a 100 wpc Moon Audio integrated amp and DAC, Bluesound Node 2 streamer decoding the MQA files on a USB stick driving a pair of stand mounted Focal loudspeakers.

What stunned me was how the drums sounded. You could hear and feel a real three demensional quality to the drum sticks hitting the surface of the drums.

Never heard that from any hi fi rig before. Of course the vocals sounded great, clear, clean, well musical.

I rushed home, fired up Tidal, played Riders on the Storm through my three-way active ATCs. Could not replicate the nuances of the drum kit I heard decoded from MQA in the shop. My mudic sounded flat, very two- dimensional.

Pretty stoked to hear more from the master, Bob Stuart and his MQA magic.

The above listening experience is useful as a subjective, sighted listening. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Gringo]

It however does become a little bit more when the overwhelming majority of those who have heard MQA say similar things. All the more reason to go and listen for yourself before making up your mind how worthwhile you think it might turn out to be. In my opinion, it will still need more providers e.g. Tidal before it has any chance of taking off and not to be consigned to the graveyard of good ideas such as Betamax, SACD etc.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

  It however does become a little bit more when the overwhelming majority of those who have heard MQA say similar things. All the more reason to go and listen for yourself before making up your mind how worthwhile you think it might turn out to be. In my opinion, it will still need more providers e.g. Tidal before it has any chance of taking off and not to be consigned to the graveyard of good ideas such as Betamax, SACD etc.

So far the overwhelming majority of "the overwhelming majority of those who have heard MQA" are high end audio industry flacks. Over the years there have been many, many miracle technologies introduced to improve the sound of mp3s and other types of digital audio files and in each and every case these "technologies" have proven to be nothing more then some very cleverly disguised form of equalizer. I will wait until MQA proves that it is something more than all those other "miracles".

 

[Gringo]

Absolutely fine with that, we all have to make our own decisions.  I may well be interpreting the tone of your comment incorrectly, (if I am then I apologise), but it seems your simply not prepared to listen until MQA have proven that is not some clever equalizer which for me is puzzling. As mentioned before, there is nothing wrong in healthy scepticism, but I prefer to research as much as I can but the final decision is to use my ears and follow the time warn mantra of "at the end of the day, it does not matter one iota what manufacturers, sales people, friends or technical data says, listen and if you like what you hear then it is right for you"  The bottom line for me is that I don't much care what the technical wizardry is, (very interesting as it might be), but whether my listening experience is made more enjoyable at a price that I am prepared to pay. This last point is obviously totally subjective and the outcome will be different for everyone.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

  Absolutely fine with that, we all have to make our own decisions.  I may well be interpreting the tone of your comment incorrectly, (if I am then I apologise), but it seems your simply not prepared to listen until MQA have proven that is not some clever equalizer which for me is puzzling. As mentioned before, there is nothing wrong in healthy scepticism, but I prefer to research as much as I can but the final decision is to use my ears and follow the time warn mantra of "at the end of the day, it does not matter one iota what manufacturers, sales people, friends or technical data says, listen and if you like what you hear then it is right for you"  The bottom line for me is that I don't much care what the technical wizardry is, (very interesting as it might be), but whether my listening experience is made more enjoyable at a price that I am prepared to pay. This last point is obviously totally subjective and the outcome will be different for everyone.

Very nicely stated. One thing to keep in mind with respect to MQA is that it is riding along as just another piece of the overall high end audio hype regarding high resolution digital audio, something that I've heard for myself many, many, many times and more often than not just leaves my wondering what all the fuss is about. Take any high resolution digital audio file (24bit/88.2 or 96 kHz), down sample the file to standard CD resolution (16bit/44.1kHz) and then playback both files and determine if you can hear any difference between the two files.
 
High end audio has a very long history of building huge houses on the shakiest of foundations - just look at the house built for after market power cords. Hell, the entire high end audio cable industry is built on sand. Power conditioners, fancy high end wall outlets, high end music servers, high end Ethernet cables, high end blank CDs etc. Remember: there's a sucker born every minute.

 

[Gringo]

Yes, you are absolutely right, many claims in the Hi-Fi world have been called into question.  As with any field of commerce,the world of Hi-Fi is littered with false and/or over embellished  claims.  It can be a minefield for the unwary but we have to keep ears open to worthwhile advancements when they come round.  If people can hear the difference that mega-bucks cables etc. offer that's down to them and their wallet.

 

[sonitus mirus]

  Yes, you are absolutely right, many claims in the Hi-Fi world have been called into question.  As with any field of commerce,the world of Hi-Fi is littered with false and/or over embellished  claims.  It can be a minefield for the unwary but we have to keep ears open to worthwhile advancements when they come round.  If people can hear the difference that mega-bucks cables etc. offer that's down to them and their wallet.

 
The audiophile industry is not like any other field of commerce.  It may not be absolutely unique, but some of the outrageous or empty claims would be illegal if similar assertions were spread around in other types of commerce.  There is no regulation.  I mean, gee whiz, at a minimum this industry should have to spend huge amounts or resources on lawyers and lobbyists to be able to get away with the type of fantastic embellishments being thrown about in an effort to influence their customer base.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

  Yes, you are absolutely right, many claims in the Hi-Fi world have been called into question.  As with any field of commerce,the world of Hi-Fi is littered with false and/or over embellished  claims.  It can be a minefield for the unwary but we have to keep ears open to worthwhile advancements when they come round.  If people can hear the difference that mega-bucks cables etc. offer that's down to them and their wallet.

A slight correction is in order: "If people think that they hear the difference that mega-bucks cables etc. offer that's down to them and their wallet."
 
Quote:

   
The audiophile industry is not like any other field of commerce.  It may not be absolutely unique, but some of the outrageous or empty claims would be illegal if similar assertions were spread around in other types of commerce.  There is no regulation.  I mean, gee whiz, at a minimum this industry should have to spend huge amounts or resources on lawyers and lobbyists to be able to get away with the type of fantastic embellishments being thrown about in an effort to influence their customer base.

 
Perhaps a good motto for the Sound Science sub-forum would be these words from Jerry Garcia / Robert Hunter:
 
"Though I could not caution all, I still might warn a few:
Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools."

 

[Gringo]

It is all down to degree when it comes to false/over embellished claims but I can think of quite a number from slimming aids, herbal remedies, car manufactures, penis enlargement aids, fuel additives, sports equipment but lets not go there. I would agree the world of Hi-Fi may well be in a league of it's own

 

[ralphp@optonline]

  It is all down to degree when it comes to false/over embellished claims but I can think of quite a number from slimming aids, herbal remedies, car manufactures, penis enlargement aids, fuel additives, sports equipment but lets not go there. I would agree the world of Hi-Fi may well be in a league of it's own

Hi-Fi has the added advantage of a whole slew of golden eared writers and editors who willingly confirm and expand upon the most outrageous claims made by the manufacturers (aka their advertisers and hence their paychecks) without requiring even the slightest bit of proof or valid scientific reasoning. Remember it's all made out to be some kind of magic when nothing cause be further from the truth. Add internal bracing to a speaker and it will perform better. Use better quality electronic components and the product will perform better. For the engineers working behind the scenes it's all well understood science but for the marketing people and their more than willing accomplices in the high end audio media it's all MAGIC!