Mozart Requiem Suggestions?
Apr 2, 2005 at 6:32 PM Post #16 of 77
I have received both the Herreweghe Requiem and the new Harnoncourt Requiem. Although the sound quality on this recording is generally excellent, Harnonocourt seems to mass his brass instruments on the left which can sometimes give the impression of unbalanced sound. It may, however, feel completely different for balance in SACD. He also uses great dynamic contrasts: the fortes are super fortissimo while the pianissimos can be almost imperceptible. This is, however, a masterful interpretation, filled with darkness, foreboding and a feeling of agitation which is missing from the Herreweghe, which is sorrowful and resigned in tone. More of the music is played at a mid volume level, which makes it easier to listen to, but which also tends to mute the darker emotional currents that the Harnoncourt brings forward.

Edit: The Harnoncourt uses Sussmayr's completion as does Herrweghe.
 
Apr 2, 2005 at 6:40 PM Post #17 of 77
Quote:

Originally Posted by scottder
I too enjoy the Giulini, and it's a budget CD to boot. Well worth looking at.

Scott



Thinking in terms of budget, both the Schreier Requiem and Marriner Requiem (used in "Amadeus") are available from Amazon new at a midprice (~$14-15) level. Used, ofcourse is less.
 
Apr 2, 2005 at 7:37 PM Post #18 of 77
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears
Thinking in terms of budget, both the Schreier Requiem and Marriner Requiem (used in "Amadeus") are available from Amazon new at a midprice (~$14-15) level. Used, ofcourse is less.


Also great deals. The Harncourt had me interested for the SACD and included score (not that I can read music, but cool anyway!).

Scott
 
Apr 3, 2005 at 1:13 PM Post #19 of 77
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears
I have received both the Herreweghe Requiem and the new Harnoncourt Requiem. Although the sound quality on this recording is generally excellent, Harnonocourt seems to mass his brass instruments on the left which can sometimes give the impression of unbalanced sound. It may, however, feel completely different for balance in SACD. He also uses great dynamic contrasts: the fortes are super fortissimo while the pianissimos can be almost imperceptible. This is, however, a masterful interpretation, filled with darkness, foreboding and a feeling of agitation which is missing from the Herreweghe, which is sorrowful and resigned in tone. More of the music is played at a mid volume level, which makes it easier to listen to, but which also tends to mute the darker emotional currents that the Harnoncourt brings forward.

Edit: The Harnoncourt uses Sussmayr's completion as does Herrweghe.



Waiting..........for Bunny to compare the Harnoncourt to Herreweghe.
 
Apr 3, 2005 at 1:29 PM Post #20 of 77
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears
He also uses great dynamic contrasts: the fortes are super fortissimo while the pianissimos can be almost imperceptible.


Now someday I'll know that means!
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Apr 3, 2005 at 7:00 PM Post #21 of 77
Okay Scott, here's a brief summary of some of the musical commands that may or may not be interesting to you. Probably, you'll just find it a case of TMI, but here goes:

In musical terminology, for some reason everyone uses the Italian terms to describe dynamics, especially in piano music. Piano is the Italian word for soft, and it is abbreviated as p on a musical score. Pianissimo, or most soft(ly) is abbreviated as pp; but composers frequently also direct ppp, or pppp, which means almost imperceptibly soft. On the piano we also get the command "una corda" which is the direction to use the soft pedal which actually shifts the whole piano action so that only one string is struck by the hammers. This is clearly a hangover from the harpsichord which had to rely on pedal work to give soft dynamics. Similarly, forte means loud, it is abbreviated f, and fortissimo (most loud) is abbreviated ff, fff, ffff respectively. Btw, there is also mf, which is mezzo forte, or loud but not very loud. Another direction is sf, which is the abbreviation for sforzando, which means suddenly loud, or a sudden stress to demarcate a note or bar phrase of music from the passage it occurs in, not to be confused with fz, or forzando which is practically the same thing (forced). Other terms that you might need to know if you read some of the music criticism here and at other forums is the term crescendo, which means to gradually increase in loudness, diminuendo which means to gradually get softer (also sometimes referred to as decrescendo).

Then there are also the directions which refers generally to the dynamics as "dolce" which means literally, "sweet(ly)" and means that the piece is to be played in a sweetly soft, or dulcet manner; or cantabile, or as if singing; or even or "scherzando" which means playfully. Those are the hardest type of commands to figure out, because they characterize the mood of the music, and involve all of the skills of musicianship at once.

Italian is also used for general tempo markings such as allegro (fast or lively), allegretto, allegro ma non troppo (allegro, but not too much!), largo, lento, andante (walking tempo), presto, etc. When a composer really wanted to be specific, he put down metronome markings as well but frequently the only note one finds on the score is the Italian direction which leaves a lot of room for the musician to play around. Other tempo marks are "ritard" for ritardando, which means slower in a particular measure, allargando or gradually slower and more majestic, or "acc" for accelerando which means gradually faster. I won't even begin to describe rubato, which means robbed. That means that one note, or even a rest (a mark which denotes silence) in a measure will be prolonged at the expense of the other notes in the measure. I was always happy to see the dot and tie, because then I didn't have to start worrying just how long to rob another note.

There is also a third type of command which actually combines tempo and dynamics, so that you find an "Andante Cantabile" command too, which means literally walking singing, which is usually interpreted as the tempo at which you can walk and sing comfortably. Obviously that will vary from individual to individual.

Well, I hoped this was helpful but if you are still confused, there is a website that has a dictionary of the terms.
 
Apr 3, 2005 at 7:40 PM Post #22 of 77
Bunnyears, thanks for the lesson! What I may do is print up the most commonly used terms, and keep them handy for listening.
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Apr 3, 2005 at 10:32 PM Post #23 of 77
Very good concise introduction to the language of music, Bunny. I am impressed, and those who wondered about these sorts of things should be sure to read and learn from her post.

-Jay
 
Apr 3, 2005 at 11:16 PM Post #24 of 77
Btw, after listening again to the Herreweghe and the Harnoncourt, I have to say that both are excellent, but neither is for me the ideal. I'll still be looking for the performance that I find ideal.
 
Apr 4, 2005 at 1:13 PM Post #25 of 77
Well, being unable to decide on Requiems left me a bit disgruntled so I started listening again. I even pulled out the old vinyl album of the soundtrack of "Amadeus" that my husband had bought because it had portions of the Neville Marriner Requiem (along with parts of the G minor symphony, some overtures etc.), my old vinyl HVK and the cd I bought which is actually a different HVK recording of the requiem.

After all of this listening, I was not surprised to find that of all the versions, the Herreweghe and the Harnoncourt really stood out from the rest, and between the two, I was unable to decide which I preferred! Each of them is reference but for slightly different reasons. The Herreweghe has a full, beautiful sound with great lyrical quality. The brass when it comes in is a muted accent, a counterpoint as it were to the voices of the singers. Here the pathos and immutability of death is rendered into resigned sorrow. It reminded me so much of the words, "In the midst of life, we are in death." The recording has great transparency and sums up much of Mozart's work with a hint of what his future work might have held. Singing, instruments, orchestration are all rendered with the sublime beauty we have always found in Mozart. It is a requiem to move you to tears.

The Harnoncourt is a different flavor of Mozart (for lack of a better way to describe it). This reflects a man angry at death, and it reminded me of the words of Dylan Thomas, "Rage, rage against the dying of the light." Harnoncourt's is a very forward looking interpretation, it emphasizes the changes in Mozart's musical development and places the Requiem squarely at the beginning of a new period of his work which the composer tragically never had a chance to develop. Rhythms and dynamics are used to stress the qualities of anxiety and agitation, and the brass when it comes in has a stridency that I have come to expect in Mahler. It is more than a counterpoint, it has become a competing voice that illuminates the darker currents in the work. In the Tuba Mirum, the trombone which is reminiscent of all of the folk tunes of Salzburg and the Tyrol in the Herreweghe, here becomes a more solemn and even cynical reminder of youth lost and the inevitable progression of life into death. For me, it was as if Mozart were giving a last salute and farewell to childhood from the vantage point of a life that knows less certainty and more disillusion.

Typical of all Harnoncourt, each voice in the orchestra is defined and balanced so that you can hear them individually and hear how they come together. Sound quality is wonderful, and I can't wait to hear it in super audio format.

So, I have come to the conclusion that both Requiems are essential recordings for me.
 
Apr 4, 2005 at 2:59 PM Post #26 of 77
*Scott prepares to send Bunny a bill for the CD's she is making him buy*

I should buy the Harnononcourt to finish out my BMG obligation.

Scott
 
Apr 4, 2005 at 5:19 PM Post #28 of 77
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears
Ouch!
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Or join my class-action against DarkAngel
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Apr 5, 2005 at 7:03 PM Post #30 of 77
Hey look what I found........another Requiem
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In my new CD stack I forgot I have 2001 Jordi Savall/Astree (Naive) Requiem that I had to special order from Tower:

coverart.asp


Will get to it soon, see how it compares to the mighty Herreweghe.
 

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