[manveru]

Quote:

• Neil Peart has never done anything to impress you eh? Do you know of another drummer who can pull off a double cross over. Watch this. If you can walk away unimpressed you surely aren't a drummer, or a musician, or even appreciate music. Harsh and bold i know, and I'm not saying like it. I'm saying have a little respect!
• And who ever said he's not quite as good as some of the jazz drummers of old, well that's comparing apples to oranges. He doesn't play jazz. Though he does pay significant homage to the jazz drummers of ole. In fact O batarista uses trumpet parts cut straight from old jazz pieces. I forget the specific tune. His set is MUCH MUCH larger than theirs. And he plays them all.
• Peart used double bass too back in the day FYI
• Peart is actually some one you can look up to. Bonham died chocking on his own vomit because he was so bloody drunk. Is that what you want your kids to look up to?
• Peart can write. And i don't mean that simply from a musical standpoint but also a lyric and poetic point.
• He's one of the most articulate, well spoken "rockers" of all time. Hands down.
• He's also show tremendous ability to over come hardship and personal loss. In 1997 he lost his daughter in a car wreck and his wife a few months later to cancer. a "slow death of apathy" as he so poetically described it.
• They use some bizzar time signatures as well as several time changes, no simple feat especially in regard to their complexity.
• The best drummer not only demonstrates significant playing ability but works in perfect unison with his band mates. Their is no better example than rush.

 
Now you can hate all you want. However his influence is truly undeniable. His finesse and refinement have grown to new heights through the years. And oh, by the way, the man's 60! and still putting youngin's to shame!

 
1. I never didn't have respect for him. He's good at what he does. I just think that what he does isn't all that great. Can you tell me at what time in the video this double cross over is? I find it hard to sit through the whole thing. 

 
2. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The term "jazz drummers of old" doesn't really hold any special meaning for me.
 
3. Ok.
 
5&6. I don't quite agree, but it's obviously a matter of differences in personal preference.
 
4&7. I'm not sure how relevant this is to drumming.
 
8. Lots of people do that. There's nothing "bizarre" about it. I wouldn't consider odd time signatures and tempo changes feats in and of themselves.
 
9. I wholeheartedly agree, although I'm not as big a Rush fan as you seem to be.
 
Let it be noted that me thinking he's overrated does not mean that I'm "hating" on him. It does not mean that I'm trying to bash him, or disrespect him, or make fun of him or anything of the sort. It simply means I think he's rated more highly than he should be, nothing more. I do not think that he is bad. In fact, I think he is very good (but there is better technically), albeit quite dry and boring relative to my tastes. It just makes me face palm inside when I see him listed as "#1 drummer of all time." If it was a personal favorite list that would be fine, but the best? That's way too over the top. We must all bear in mind that this does all have to do with personal preferences to a certain degree. By no means am I trying to imply that I am "right" or that others have to feel the same as me.

 

[thecansmancan]

• Watch from about 6 minutes on
• Quote:

I like Peart as a rock drummer but he is certainly a few notches down from the great jazz drummers.
 
I've seen Rush 27 times but mostly in the 70's and 80's.  He was a huge upgrade over original John Rutsy, plus he started writing all the lyrics.  Also from Caress of Steel forward the music certainly got a bit deeper and more progressive but it is not known whether this was because of Neil or in spite of him.
 
No arguments with anyone else on the list. 

3. That was written to another person, my comment wasn't entirely centered around your remark. Which is, perhaps, why it has less meaning to you.
 
5/6. Setting personal bias aside, he has more than one published book. That, in it's own, is proof he can write. Now whether that writing strikes your fancy is another story. And have you ever actually watched an interview with him? There's a reason he's known as the professor on the drums.
 
4/7. I believe a drummer is something more than a musician. They don't merely memorize notes and spit them back out on cue. Drummers are human. The image they carry is nearly if not equally important as their physical ability. Overlooking the intensely human aspect of music is a sore mistake.
 
8. Name me "several" rock bands well noted for their odd time signatures and tempo changes. I find it peculiar you said there were several yet failed to specifically mention a single one. And if you'd like to say they aren't feats in and of themselves then couple that with the pure complexity of the song. Any musician will tell you switching times while remaining in synergy with their band mates is no small feat. 
 
9. Guess 30 some odd years with the same band will do that to ya

 

[manveru]

Quote:

• Watch from about 6 minutes on

 
8. Name me "several" rock bands well noted for their odd time signatures and tempo changes. I find it peculiar you said there were several yet failed to specifically mention a single one. And if you'd like to say they aren't feats in and of themselves then couple that with the pure complexity of the song. Any musician will tell you switching times while remaining in synergy with their band mates is no small feat. 

 
1. Oh, that's what you mean by double crossover. I didn't know that move by any official name. I'm sorry to say, but I just don't get it. A double crossover isn't that hard to do or super crazy or anything. I've known 16 year olds who could do it very well.
 
8. It's hard to remember everything I've ever heard off the top of my head, but how about Spock's Beard, Porcupine Tree, The Dear Hunter, or basically just prog rock bands in general? Or mathcore type bands such as Tera Melos, or The Number Twelve Looks Like You? Even indie bands like Broken Social Scene, Mew, and The Most Serene Republic have songs with odd time sigs and switches (TMSR especially). My band has like 5 tempo changes in every song, and we use odd times too. All I'm saying is, these things are not revolutionary or mind altering or something, and it doesn't take some crazy skill to pull it off. I learned about them in grade school. Things like this happened constantly in high school when I was in drumline (I'm not talking about football games, we placed 6th in the WGI world championships). That's up to 30 people standing as far away from each other as the length of a basketball court all staying in sync while marching and doing choreography. There are videos of it somewhere on Vic Firth's website.
 
Would you mind please naming one of Rush's most complicated songs for me to listen to? I've never heard them do anything all that complicated sounding, but while I have listened to them before, I don't know their music intimately or anything so maybe I'm just missing the good stuff. I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[robm321]

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I've never heard them do anything all that complicated sounding, but while I have listened to them before, I don't know their music intimately or anything so maybe I'm just missing the good stuff. I'd love to be proven wrong.

 
You already have been proven wrong. You just haven't realized it yet

 
Seriously, does he need to grow wings and fly around the stage while continuing to play the drums for you to be impressed. Some incredibly high standards that you've got there. I can see you thinking someone is better but not being impressed by his skill is... a bit detached from reality, I think. I'm impressed by all the great ones even though I think some are better than others.

 

[manveru]

Quote:

 
You already have been proven wrong. You just haven't realized it yet

 
Seriously, does he need to grow wings and fly around the stage while continuing to play the drums for you to be impressed. Some incredibly high standards that you've got there. I can see you thinking someone is better but not being impressed by his skill is... a bit detached from reality, I think. I'm impressed by all the great ones even though I think some are better than others.

 
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "wrong" there. I don't mean to imply that it's a contest or some kind of argument with a "winner" and a "loser." There's nothing to prove in that sense. I just meant maybe there's something he's done I haven't seen that would change my perspective. If somebody were to show me that I'd shut up immediately. So far nothing though.
 
I'm not completely unimpressed, and like I've said I acknowledge him for what he is and I'm not saying he's bad. It's just compared to other great drummers, I'd say he's average at best. Plus due to personal preferences, I find his drumming to be extremely boring. I don't think it's a question of standards. I truly and honestly think he is not even close to as good as everybody says. I seriously cannot see what everyone sees in him, but I think his popularity is a big part of it. I don't think people would be trying to "defend his honor" as zealously if he played a 4 piece kit in some random band that most people haven't heard of. I know I'm typically the odd one out. 

 

[Eee Pee]

Isn't the fact that Bonham and Peart and Moon and Baker, et al. did all this stuff 40 some years ago the reason they're ranked highly?  Compare them to the drummers of then.
 
They're not over rated in my opinion.  Are there better drummer today?  Sure.  Did they learn something from Bonham, Peart and Moon, etc?  Probably.

 

[Feedback]

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Tera Melos

 
The old Tera Melos drummer was incredible. He's definitely one of my favorite drummers.
 
 

Isn't the fact that Bonham and Peart and Moon and Baker, et al. did all this stuff 40 some years ago the reason they're ranked highly?  Compare them to the drummers of then.
 
They're not over rated in my opinion.  Are there better drummer today?  Sure.  Did they learn something from Bonham, Peart and Moon, etc?  Probably.
 

 
This is actually a great point. Damon Che from Don Caballero was largely influenced by Neil Peart.

 

[manveru]

Quote:

Isn't the fact that Bonham and Peart and Moon and Baker, et al. did all this stuff 40 some years ago the reason they're ranked highly?  Compare them to the drummers of then.
 
They're not over rated in my opinion.  Are there better drummer today?  Sure.  Did they learn something from Bonham, Peart and Moon, etc?  Probably.

 
That very well may be true. I'm not familiar enough with lots of drummers from that time to say for sure. I actually like most of the guys previously mentioned. Still, I'm not really interested in time restricted judgments, since my main contention is the fact that these names appear in the top slots of greatest of all time lists. And then questioning these god-like beings is almost considered an act of blasphemy or something. A chariot might have been considered an excellent vehicle during its time, but you don't see people nowadays going around saying "the chariot is the greatest mode of transportation that has ever existed."
 
They probably did learn something from Bonham, Peart, and Moon, etc. Just like they learned from those before them, and those before them learned from those before them, and so on into infinite. That's a given. I guess it all depends on how you look at it though.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Isn't the fact that Bonham and Peart and Moon and Baker, et al. did all this stuff 40 some years ago the reason they're ranked highly?  Compare them to the drummers of then.
 
They're not over rated in my opinion.  Are there better drummer today?  Sure.  Did they learn something from Bonham, Peart and Moon, etc?  Probably.

Its one thing to be an innovator and pioneer and something completely different to be just a follower. 

 

[Eee Pee]

Let's go back a bit earlier.  

 

 

[Redcarmoose]

 
 
 
 
 
Dumb chicks can't play drums....everyone knows that. They are all over-rated. IMO
 
 
 
 
Meg White
 
 
And the girl in Earth.
 
 
All bad.       This is truly how I feel.

 

[Feedback]

Quote:

Its one thing to be an innovator and pioneer and something completely different to be just a follower. 

 
Every musician has influences. It's not like Peart or Bonham invented the drumset. They listened to other drummers and were influenced by their styles as well.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 
Every musician has influences. It's not like Peart or Bonham invented the drumset. They listened to other drummers and were influenced by their styles as well.

With rock music, they certainly were innovators and pioneers. 

 
You can add Ginger Baker, Keith Moon to the mix as well (and Bill Ward too IMO).

 

[Feedback]

Quote:

With rock music, they certainly were innovators and pioneers. 

 
You can add Ginger Baker, Keith Moon to the mix as well (and Bill Ward too IMO).

 
And there were innovators before them, and there are innovators today. Not everyone is a follower of Neil Peart. Get over it.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 
And there were innovators before them, and there are innovators today. Not everyone is a follower of Neil Peart. Get over it.

What's your beef with Peart? I couldn't care less who you like or dislike...but the facts are still there (whether you choose to acknowledge them or not).
 
So with Rock, no there weren't innovators before the drummers I mentioned that anyone today would name or care to for that matter.