[maegnificant]

Are you part of this very small minority of Head-Fier’s who ultimately care more about measured frequency response than their own ears assessment?
Call me surprised…

I am part of the brain in my head telling me to think about if I spent that 350 euros wisely or not.

 

[Hypops]

I pay for this IEM to have a certain signature, within a certain margin of error. To me, this is about trust in a brand.

Weird, but whatever floats your boat. To me, this seems like being upset because you bought a black t-shirt that you discover is actually just a white t-shirt dyed black.

As a relative newcomer to IEMs (but long-time stereo speaker and over-ear headphone enthusiast), I'm perpetually surprised by the obsession with FR among IEM hobbyists.

 

[maegnificant]

Weird, but whatever floats your boat. To me, this seems like being upset because you bought a black t-shirt that you discover is actually just a white t-shirt dyed black.

As a relative newcomer to IEMs (but long-time stereo speaker and over-ear headphone enthusiast), I'm perpetually surprised by the obsession with FR among IEM hobbyists.

It's not about the FR alone (which btw mirrors, you know, the sound of an IEM) but about channel imbalance and QC issues that Crinacle openly adressed, his name and word is behind this product and I expect a certain quality.

Here is another video adressing that.
With Shenzhenaudios horrible return policy in place, I expected better from Moondrop and Crinacle. There is no way for me to actually validate those problems, without buying another pair for comparison, which I most certainly will not do. If I end up not liking the IEM, I will never be sure if it is because it is faulty, or because I don't enjoy the tuning.

 

[Hypops]

If I end up not liking the IEM, I will never be sure if it is because it is faulty, or because I don't enjoy the tuning.

A channel imbalance wouldn't be confused for an unsatisfying tuning. Channel imbalance is very noticeable if it's big enough to hear, usually by means of imaging/staging. Certain frequencies of the same instrument will sound like they move around in space (when they should be locked in place). If you don't hear it, it isn't a problem.

Or said another way, all IEMs (and all over-ears and all speakers) have some degree of channel imbalance. It's a physical impossibility to match drivers perfectly (to say nothing of our slightly asymmetrical ear physiology). But most imbalance is below the threshold of human perception. Only when that imbalance is audible is it a problem. If you don't hear it, it isn't a problem.

 

[SemperMalum]

It's not about the FR alone (which btw mirrors, you know, the sound of an IEM) but about channel imbalance and QC issues that Crinacle openly adressed, his name and word is behind this product and I expect a certain quality.

Here is another video adressing that.
With Shenzhenaudios horrible return policy in place, I expected better from Moondrop and Crinacle. There is no way for me to actually validate those problems, without buying another pair for comparison, which I most certainly will not do. If I end up not liking the IEM, I will never be sure if it is because it is faulty, or because I don't enjoy the tuning.

I enjoy a lot of reviewers and I enjoy a lot of Jays takes on a lot of other IEMs but it's difficult to take his impressions/review of the Dusk seriously considering the manufactured beef he has made with Crin.

 

[HeadphoneAddict00]

If you cannot hear any imbalance, why does it matter then? I fully understand that it matters if you can hear it, but if you can't, I don't see the issue?
Don't get me wrong, it should be balanced, and the QC with Moondrop should be better, I'm not trying to defend them in this regard.
I just don't get why it is an issue, if it's not an issue (you can hear)?

Yes, nearly everyone in this hobby does resales, this hurts the value of resales with negative publicity. How are we supposed to know it's not being sold because of strong channel imbalance? Look at how hifiman's previous QC issues haunt them of course it matters

 

[dakchi]

I enjoy a lot of reviewers and I enjoy a lot of Jays takes on a lot of other IEMs but it's difficult to take his impressions/review of the Dusk seriously considering the manufactured beef he has made with Crin.

He is not the only one who complained about QC of this set and the software. He is just confirming what other reviewers said before him

 

[Hypops]

Yes, nearly everyone in this hobby does resales, this hurts the value of resales with negative publicity. How are we supposed to know it's not being sold because of strong channel imbalance? Look at how hifiman's previous QC issues haunt them of course it matters

This is a risk with used sales across the board. It's why people should only buy from trusted sellers and never use F&F. Nothing new or unusual in this case.

 

[joe]

Mod note: Let's take a breather guys, and let's halt on the personal attacks.

 

[HeadphoneAddict00]

This is a risk with used sales across the board. It's why people should only buy from trusted sellers and never use F&F. Nothing new or unusual in this case.

-3 DB channel imbalance being acceptable is both new and unusual. You're arguing in bad faith.

 

[SemperMalum]

-3 DB channel imbalance being acceptable is both new and unusual. You're arguing in bad faith.

QC does appear to be not ideal. They do appear to be technically within the threshold of their 2 +/- db range for the most part and the 3 db imbalance may be par for course.

Crin posted a random selection of 10 Dusk measurements for channel imbalance on his YT which does... I mean show that some of it is really good. And some have some strange imbalance at certain points of the graph. Direct link for reference.

I'm not sure how to feel about it but, to be honest, I'm going to wait until they come in (I did pre-order the Dusk so I may be coping) to see if I can hear the difference. I don't think I can hear the super upper treble clearly (that others have pointed out) so I'm cautiously optimistic about the Dusk especially considering some other reviewers that I trust (HBB and Timmy) love the set.

 

[HeadphoneAddict00]

QC does appear to be not ideal. They do appear to be technically within the threshold of their 2 +/- db range for the most part and the 3 db imbalance may be par for course.



Crin posted a random selection of 10 Dusk measurements for channel imbalance on his YT which does... I mean show that some of it is really good. And some have some strange imbalance at certain points of the graph. Direct link for reference.

I'm not sure how to feel about it but, to be honest, I'm going to wait until they come in (I did pre-order the Dusk so I may be coping) to see if I can hear the difference. I don't think I can hear the super upper treble clearly (that others have pointed out) so I'm cautiously optimistic about the Dusk especially considering some other reviewers that I trust (HBB and Timmy) love the set.

Who knows really, they could have gotten units with good matching, it's a lottery. I've heard reviewers say the soundstage is large and imaging is excellent. Heard others say the soundstage is ok and the imaging is straight up terrible. I have to believe that's the QC at play, if drivers aren't well matched the first thing to go will be imaging.

 

[SemperMalum]

Who knows really, they could have gotten units with good matching, it's a lottery. I've heard reviewers say the soundstage is large and imaging is excellent. Heard others say the soundstage is ok and the imaging is straight up terrible. I have to believe that's the QC at play, if drivers aren't well matched the first thing to go will be imaging.

Very true.

Either that or Moondrop knew that a set was going to JaysAudio and was like "give him the reject pile"

 

[Khumbaba]

 

[Hypops]

QC does appear to be not ideal. They do appear to be technically within the threshold of their 2 +/- db range for the most part and the 3 db imbalance may be par for course.



Crin posted a random selection of 10 Dusk measurements for channel imbalance on his YT which does... I mean show that some of it is really good. And some have some strange imbalance at certain points of the graph. Direct link for reference.

I'm not sure how to feel about it but, to be honest, I'm going to wait until they come in (I did pre-order the Dusk so I may be coping) to see if I can hear the difference. I don't think I can hear the super upper treble clearly (that others have pointed out) so I'm cautiously optimistic about the Dusk especially considering some other reviewers that I trust (HBB and Timmy) love the set.

I have no skin in this particular game, but it's worth keeping in mind that very few measurement rigs are capable of reliable and consistent measurements above 8kHz (which may have something to do with the industry standard topping out at 6kHz).