Moon Nēo 430HA Reference Headphone Amplifier
Oct 2, 2015 at 1:17 AM Post #736 of 1,920
 
It's all good. Different horses and all that.
 
I am curious what cabling you are using with your 430HA? I have a preference for a warmer sound. More a fan of Cardas than Nordost, if you know what I mean? In any case, I've been really liking some of the newer Audioquest cables with the Simaudio Neo products. Seems a bit of synergy there. More so than with my Cardas cables. Perhaps it's the bit of detail the Audioquest brings out.
 
Another example of system synergy for me has been in trying some active monitors with the 430HAD and 230HAD. Depending on the day and musical genre on tap I can use the Dynaudios or Focals. Both very different sounding - almost polar opposites. But in a system context, one is very much preferred over the other.

 
I am a cable Neanderthal. Never detected an audible difference with cable changes, ever. Speaker cables, interconnects, power cables - make no difference for me - so I use moderately priced, but well constructed, cables and enjoy the music.
 
Oct 2, 2015 at 1:37 AM Post #737 of 1,920
   
I am a cable Neanderthal. Never detected an audible difference with cable changes, ever. Speaker cables, interconnects, power cables - make no difference for me - so I use moderately priced, but well constructed, cables and enjoy the music.

 
I know my wallet wishes I'd never heard a difference.
 
Agreed. It's all about the music.
 
Cheers.
 
Oct 2, 2015 at 4:03 AM Post #738 of 1,920
Boy, that Bob Katz (grin)! A few other Big Sound reviewers had similar impressions, I know, but I think it's Bob Katz's legendary status and skills that swung some things around here. Good thing he's not given to strong opinions.... Okay, so basically, not only would he never pay cash money for the Moon Neo, I kinda think he would pay to never have to listen to it again! Without question the Neo is not for everyone. You have to be coming from a different perspective. Can I offer again a bit of that other perspective?
 
The 430HA is soft, smooth, euphonic, romantic, "tubey." It is not muffled. "Muffled" can imply that Simaudio fell short of clarity they otherwise would've liked to have achieved. I think they hit exactly the target between "syrupy" and "strident" they were aiming at. Without question, there is an attenuation of dynamics and tonality. However, it doesn't present itself as the result of a deficiency, but as a precise tuning toward a well defined goal. It's just that that goal is not absolute accuracy–but musicality–though that's harder to define. 
 
Surely there will be passages where other amps reveal more satisfying detail, but there will be other passages where those same amps will come across harsh. Bob Katz is not wrong, that is accuracy, but in this context, it is at the expense of musicality. The sudden jolt of an insufficiently mastered dynamic swing or grating frequency takes you out of the music. And to get all trippy and meta, though that may be accurate to the printed master, it fails the intention of the artist who set out to make music not a sample of audio engineering. To quote a different Neo, "Whoa!"
 
Are there certain times when I wish for a harder hit and more bite? Absolutely, but the Neo is not uninvolving. Track over track, genre by genre, the 430HA has earned my respect for the judiciousness of its choices over the full range of material. Case in point, Alanis Morissette's classic, "Uninvited." You remember her voice right? You have to be safecracker specific to ensure its musicality. A hair to the right and its screeching and annoying; a hair to the left and it loses its piercing power. Get it wrong and she's just a woman whining on her way to the next Lilith fair in the 90s. Get it right and she is making a profound statement that penetrates to the shared sense of loneliness we all deny.
 
Musicality. And the 430HA gets it right.
 
All of this, I know, is so heavily system dependent and subjective. I may not pair the Neo with soft phones like planars. Also, my sonarworks EQ subtracts out midrange mud from the HD800, around 100Hz-1KHz, and I'm using pristine silver cabling from DHC. From my perspective, though, the 430HA has so many strengths, it's worth building a system around. 
 
Oct 2, 2015 at 5:00 AM Post #739 of 1,920
Just so folks folks know where I am coming from - I am not saying that the 430HA is bad amp. I am saying that my sound preferences are much closer to the Auralic Taurus than the 430HA. This is my preference, in my system, listening to my music with my ears. Other folks might have a very different experience. That's totally cool.
 
I also detest the Audeze product line - many others find them brilliant (Bob Katz even had nice things to say about the LCD-3F, whereas I would rather eat my HD800/HE6 than listen to an Audeze product), so take my viewpoint with a grain of salt.
 
But, to me, the overly warm presentation does sacrifice dynamics, punch and detail, and therefore musical engagement drops away for me because I adore dynamics, punch and detail. YMMV.
 
Oct 2, 2015 at 5:22 AM Post #740 of 1,920
Moon has a lot of dynamics, punch and details with Abyss. On par or even more then with my Taurus MKII which I had before!
I found it silly that now people come across because Katz criticize the Moon as too smooth. The Moon is the best solid state amplifier to date I know and can drive every headphone (bright or warm) to its best! I never heared the Abyss (bright headphone) or LCD-3 (warm) better.
I also use the balanced headphone outputs to connect to my KGSS! And this is with my SR009 and SR007 a combo to die for! Very dynamic and musical!
 
Oct 2, 2015 at 7:08 AM Post #744 of 1,920
   
Interesting. I get the opposite effect with the HD800. Did you do an A/B side by side comparison?

Tony, if you're interested in an A/B comparison. There's a guy in this very thread that said the 430HA "stomps" on his Taurus MKII with better dynamics and detail. I don't know what happened to him, or where he went.... I miss that guy. 
 
I hope you know this is in the spirit of play and I truly mean no offense. You were one of the people that turned me on to the 430HA and so I'm just trying to return the favor. 
 
I hate to suggest you throw good money after bad, when you said you're not affected by cables, but personally, I've found cables to be able to fine tune a system I like but am not satisfied with. Good silver like Double Helix, Toxic, Whiplash, generally brings out detail and dynamics and clears out muddy warmth while preserving analog fulness. 
 
Since Bob came to Bozeman, there's been some preoccupation with softness, but there are so many other aspects of sound and without enumerating them the Neo just does so many things well. 
 
Of course, in the end, we've all got to go with what we love. All the best in your pursuit.
 
Oct 2, 2015 at 4:27 PM Post #745 of 1,920
As mentioned earlier - I was wrong. Very wrong. I think I was totally enamored with the 430HA when I first got it and that colored my perception of it. Blind testing would have helped.
 
I also think my tastes and preferences have moved in the past few months. I used to crave warmth and easy listening. Now I am more into detail and a closer-to-neutral presentation.
 
Oct 2, 2015 at 4:45 PM Post #746 of 1,920
Now I hear the HE1000 a very smooth headphone with the Moon 430HA. A combo like in heaven. And when the record has sibliance I hear it! Moon is not muffled or colored that's only something in our brain when we read the ******** in reviews. My 2 cents.
 
Oct 2, 2015 at 5:26 PM Post #747 of 1,920
Now I hear the HE1000 a very smooth headphone with the Moon 430HA. A combo like in heaven. And when the record has sibliance I hear it! Moon is not muffled or colored that's only something in our brain when we read the ******** in reviews. My 2 cents.

 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion
smile.gif

 
Having said that, I will state that I didn't stumble over my change of mind by accident, or just from reading what Bob Katz has to say. Reading those comments prompted me to get out my Taurus and do some more testing and see if I had a similar experience (I was quite skeptical at first).
 
I have spent quite a bit of time doing A/B comparisons on tracks I know well using my gear (shown below):
 

 
 
For me, using my ears and my gear, I agree with Bob Katz. The warmth and smoothness of the 430HA does come at the expense of reduced dynamics and detail. Too much so for my tastes, as this reduces musical engagement for me (emphasis added).
 
This is all about finding what works for you. For me, the 430HA was not a good purchase as my preferences are elsewhere. For other folks it could be nirvana. To each their own.
 
 

 
Oct 4, 2015 at 3:57 AM Post #749 of 1,920
I don't understand the muddy/soft comments regarding the 430HD, having compared it to a Hugo + Ragnarok, I found it to be musical while retaining dynamics and detail.
 
I do however use the iFi iUSB (+ linear PSU) and iFi Gemini cable, which I've found works wonders for the sonics in question. Which is why I'm tempted by the OffRamp 5, supposed to be the best converter on the market. 
 
Again, this is with the Abyss. Wonderful synergy.
 
Oct 4, 2015 at 9:06 AM Post #750 of 1,920
  I don't understand the muddy/soft comments regarding the 430HD, having compared it to a Hugo + Ragnarok, I found it to be musical while retaining dynamics and detail.
 
I do however use the iFi iUSB (+ linear PSU) and iFi Gemini cable, which I've found works wonders for the sonics in question. Which is why I'm tempted by the OffRamp 5, supposed to be the best converter on the market. 
 
Again, this is with the Abyss. Wonderful synergy.

I am at CanJam at RMAF now and I had a long talk with Joe from Abyss. They have a demo room with the abyss paired with:
 
Liquid Gold
Woo WA234's using Tat 300 B's and 274's (That's $4k in tubes!)
Wells HeadTrip
Viva Egoista
and the Moon 430HAD
 
For Solid State at their shop the Moon is the reference unit.  I thought that was interesting.
 

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