[betula]

Don’t want to start a religious argument, but I believe the stock tubes are quite ‘vin ordinaire’, and do NOT give a good picture...
This

Fair enough, but I don't think any other tube would change my opinion. The difference was so obvious and strong. To my ears at least.

 

[Schwibbles]

I am not keeping the Liquid Platinum. Here is why.

I don't know too many budget amps (under $500), but I imagine the LP is better than most of them. I think it still is a great option for the US retail price, considering the potential of tube rolling.
Importing to Europe (£790) starts to seriously question the price/performance ratio especially if you look at the secondhand market.

I have tested the LP against my CMA600i and against the iFi Pro iCan. The truth in a nutshell is that both the CMA600i and the Pro iCan are in a different league compared to the LP. (DACs used are the 2Qute and the Pro iDSD)

LP has a nice, liquid sound. Very sophisticated, very delicate. Very detailed. Details are on pair with the two other amps. Vocals are as nice as they are on the 600i and better than on the Pro iCAN.

My biggest problem with the LP vs. these two other amps is that it just sounds thin. Too delicate, too polite. Nice, nuanced amp, but there is no meat on the bones. Perhaps the most neutral from the bunch and surprisingly the least tuby sounding. (Except iCAN in SS mode.) Even my CMA600i has a smoother and more rounded, richer sound. My other big problem with the LP apart from the relatively lean sound is the weakness of the bass. It is just not there, neither in quantity, nor in quality compared to the two other amps. The LP is definitely a mid-centric amp and while it does midrange beautifully, seriously lacks in the bass department. Treble is also less pronounced, however it is quite clear that helps with detail retrieval.

I know, it is somewhat unfair to compare the LP to more expensive amps. It is still quite a good option for US retail price, especially if someone is into acoustic, vocal or classical music. However I wouldn't recommend the LP for EDM at all due to the relatively anaemic bass compared to dynamic SS amps.

I was surprised, how much more tuby the CMA600i (current amplification) sounds. More rounded, richer, smoother, fuller, better texture. Keep in mind, the 600i's DAC is quite useless. You need to pair it with a good DAC. (See above.)

I don't want to trash the LP as it is indeed a nice, delicate, very refined amp for the price. But don't fool yourself that it offers a top shelf performance for the fraction of the price.

This is my 2 cents on the LP. It is a good amp for the price if you are into vocals and acoustic music, but won't replace your higher-end amps.

Hmm... Very interesting take. I don't have stock tubes to use so I can't compare directly. I urge you to try some different tubes in the LP because most people seem to have a pretty good experience with the amp after swapping the tubes out. I notice pretty substantial differences in sound between the Gold Lion tubes and some older Amperex tubes.

Disregarding price, I prefer the LP to the Pro iCAN. I didn't really like the iCAN when I had it. The features, power, and form factor were awesome but the sound left something to be desired. I thought it sounded dull and somewhat lacking in clarity; in SS and tube modes. I don't have either of those issues with the LP. During the time I had it, it was paired to a Soekris dac1541 and an HD800S. I wish I could try it again with my Utopia. I feel it deserves another chance; especially since you have such a different opinion of it. I wonder if there was something that I missed.

I can't compare to the 600i but I should be getting an opportunity to demo the CMA Twelve soon and will definitely compare to that. It's unfortunate that the Twelve doesn't have any analog inputs though.

 

[betula]

Hmm... Very interesting take. I don't have stock tubes to use so I can't compare directly. I urge you to try some different tubes in the LP because most people seem to have a pretty good experience with the amp after swapping the tubes out. I notice pretty substantial differences in sound between the Gold Lion tubes and some older Amperex tubes.

Disregarding price, I prefer the LP to the Pro iCAN. I didn't really like the iCAN when I had it. The features, power, and form factor were awesome but the sound left something to be desired. I thought it sounded dull and somewhat lacking in clarity; in SS and tube modes. I don't have either of those issues with the LP. During the time I had it, it was paired to a Soekris dac1541 and an HD800S. I wish I could try it again with my Utopia. I feel it deserves another chance; especially since you have such a different opinion of it. I wonder if there was something that I missed.

I can't compare to the 600i but I should be getting an opportunity to demo the CMA Twelve soon and will definitely compare to that. It's unfortunate that the Twelve doesn't have any analog inputs though.

The LP has some advantages over the Pro iCan. The sound is more delicate and lighter/easier. The Pro iCan can be very much upfront, almost aggressive. Even though the dynamism, extension and speed is obviously on the iFi's side.
The 600i is somewhat in-between. Not as dynamic and tight as the Pro iCan but thicker and more pleasing than the LP.
The LP can still be a valid choice with a good DAC and hp-s and perhaps other tubes, regardless of price. But not for EDM. IMO.

 

[UsoppNoKami]

Fair enough, but I don't think any other tube would change my opinion. The difference was so obvious and strong. To my ears at least.

I have an AudioGD Master-11 Singularity that outputs 16000mW at 25ohm. For my ears, I prefer the LP for most of my music (rock), i just use the AGD for its BB DAC most of the time.

IMHO - LP's std tubes & gold lions are boring, too polite for my tastes. May as well listen to my SS gear which has some serious grunt. Too bad you're returning the amp, rolling NOS tubes changes the sound tremendously.

My absolute favourite tubes thus far has been NOS Philips SQ E188CC tubes that were made by Mullard - rich mids, strong bass and a nice sparkle in the treble. Also have run 1975 holy grail Reflektors, a bit more polite with my existing gear but very holographic - these i'm told pair really well with the ZMF Verite, running them in while waiting for my cans. Songs like Algorithm on Muse's Simulation Theory album - the bass on the LCD2C is absolutely, utterly bonkers with the Mullard tubes.

I also have a matched pair of WE396A but the adaptors were faulty so I didnt get to try them in the LP yet. Eyeing a pair of Tesla cross sword red/blue tips next. Or maybe try 12au7 mullards / telefunkens from my other amp once i get adaptors made.

 

[betula]

I have an AudioGD Master-11 Singularity that outputs 16000mW at 25ohm. For my ears, I prefer the LP for most of my music (rock), i just use the AGD for its BB DAC most of the time.

IMHO - LP's std tubes & gold lions are boring, too polite for my tastes. May as well listen to my SS gear which has some serious grunt. Too bad you're returning the amp, rolling NOS tubes changes the sound tremendously.

My absolute favourite tubes thus far has been NOS Philips SQ E188CC tubes that were made by Mullard - rich mids, strong bass and a nice sparkle in the treble. Also have run 1975 holy grail Reflektors, a bit more polite with my existing gear but very holographic - these i'm told pair really well with the ZMF Verite, running them in while waiting for my cans. Songs like Algorithm on Muse's Simulation Theory album - the bass on the LCD2C is absolutely, utterly bonkers with the Mullard tubes.

I also have a matched pair of WE396A but the adaptors were faulty so I didnt get to try them in the LP yet. Eyeing a pair of Tesla cross sword red/blue tips next. Or maybe try 12au7 mullards / telefunkens from my other amp once i get adaptors made.

You might be right, but I was also hesitating to go down in the rabbit hole of tube rolling. If an amp doesn't catch my attention enough with stock tubes, I won't invest more energy in trying to 'fix it' with other tubes. There are so many amps available these days.

 

[UsoppNoKami]

You might be right, but I was also hesitating to go down in the rabbit hole of tube rolling. If an amp doesn't catch my attention enough with stock tubes, I won't invest more energy in trying to 'fix it' with other tubes. There are so many amps available these days.

err.. humbly disagree, it's not about 'fixing' anything.

rolling tubes = different flavours of sound to match one's tastes , mood , gear , music

but to each his own... tube rolling is indeed a black hole, not just a rabbit hole haha. besides my LP, i have a very nice Cayin HA-1A mk2 with a cache of NOS tubes. And i have a Glenn OTL 9-tube amp coming soon.....

 

[betula]

err.. humbly disagree, it's not about 'fixing' anything.

rolling tubes = different flavours of sound to match one's tastes , mood , gear , music

but to each his own... tube rolling is indeed a black hole, not just a rabbit hole haha. besides my LP, i have a very nice Cayin HA-1A mk2 with a cache of NOS tubes. And i have a Glenn OTL 9-tube amp coming soon.....

Tube rolling is also a bit time consuming. I don't have that much time these days.

And to explain my views a bit better, tubes are like sauces on ice-cream. Sure, it changes the taste for one's liking, but it doesn't change the ice-cream. If I don't like vanilla I won't like it with more chocolate sauce either.

 

[skyline315]

Stop being amp evangelists. @betula doesn't like it.

Let the poor guy (or girl) go about their merry way.

 

[betula]

Stop being amp evangelists. @betula doesn't like it.

Let the poor guy (or girl) go about their merry way.

I am not an evangelist. Just shared my experience after comparing three amps. There is no objective truth. At least not in this hobby.

 

[jmac1516]

You might be right, but I was also hesitating to go down in the rabbit hole of tube rolling. If an amp doesn't catch my attention enough with stock tubes, I won't invest more energy in trying to 'fix it' with other tubes. There are so many amps available these days.

Your opinion is valuable to information seekers--they can do with it what they want. Thank you for offering your observations! No one could/should challenge what you prefer.

You are also fortunate to have a couple other very solid amps so enjoy some music!

 

[skyline315]

I am not an evangelist. Just shared my experience after comparing three amps. There is no objective truth. At least not in this hobby.

I know. I was talking to everyone else who kept trying to change your mind.

 

[betula]

I know. I was talking to everyone else who kept trying to change your mind.

We all hear differently. After some years in the hobby I am confident enough to trust my hearing versus others opinion.

 

[heliosphann]

I had a 600i when it first came out.

Thought it was decent sounding, but it only paired well with a handful of headphones. I'd take the LP over it all day. YMMV.

 

[Guidostrunk]

Some 396a adapters , and a pair of we396a may change your mind.
Even more convincing is the 6n3p 1950's foton triple mica(same 396a adapter). If you can find them. Every amp I've ever purchased had not so good stock tubes.

Of course it's all subjective. Just an opinion on the matter.


Cheers

Fair enough, but I don't think any other tube would change my opinion. The difference was so obvious and strong. To my ears at least.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

I've heard them.

I prerfer the LP.

*shrug*

Would agree, particularly the Pro iCan, which I thought was highly unmusical and lacked “soul.”