Monoprice Desktop Headphone Amplifier #11567
Jul 22, 2014 at 1:32 PM Post #31 of 143
Does anyone have an idea of what the output impedance of it is? A reviewer on reddit would suggest that it drove his HE 400 fairly well, but Ill be driving a pair of philips x1's, which have an impedance of 30 ohms.  The price is attractive, but the only thing wrong with my mobo audio is the impedance mismatch; so it wouldnt make much sense to purchase this if the impedance was still mismatched by a considerable margin.  
I think it's still 10 ohms since it uses the same headphone amp as the E09K and ClieOS has said, and I quote, "The TPA6120 headphone amp chip inside E9 has a bit too much power and requires minimum 10 ohm output impedance for stability. ".
 
Jul 22, 2014 at 2:00 PM Post #32 of 143
If it's based on the same headphone out circuit as the Fiio E09K (which i think it is, at least in terms of what chips Monoprice used) it'll be somewhere around 10 ohms.
 
Jul 22, 2014 at 7:46 PM Post #33 of 143
Thanks for the quick reply! I guess I should look elsewhere for something to drive my Philips x1's then. 
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Jul 22, 2014 at 8:56 PM Post #34 of 143
  Thanks for the quick reply! I guess I should look elsewhere for something to drive my Philips x1's then. 
triportsad.gif

 
Noob question: Why does an output impedance of 10 ohms suggest that the amp is unfit to drive your 30 ohm Philips?  I was considering buying this amp to drive a pair of 32 ohm Grado's.
 
Thanks!
 
Jul 22, 2014 at 11:01 PM Post #35 of 143
Output impedace affects damping factor and frequency response.
 
Damping factor is the ratio of the transducer impedance over the amp's output impedance, and represents the amount of control or "grip" that the amp has on the transducer (there's an article over at innerfidelity that explains this quite well). As a general rule of thumb in the speaker world, you want a damping factor of 8-10 or higher. In the headphone world, the effect of damping factor is arguably not as important since the drivers are relatively lightweight and so the whole electromotive back emf yadda yadda pixie dust may not be as relevant. Read up on those argments at your discretion. Impedance for planar magnetics is also another funny thing.
 
Changes in frequency response might also occur if the headphone impedance tends to swing wildly. Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic are the most well known examples here, with impedance spikes potentially 2-5x higher than the nominal rating in the midbass region (typically around 80-100Hz). This results in a midbass boost (usually only a couple dB), which most people find is actually a somewhat pleasant warm sound, though there's an accompanied "boomy" feeling (whether that's from increased levels and/or from decreased damping factor at those frequencies, well I'll leave that for you to decide).
 
My stance is this: If you're looking for a sub-$100 amp to drive a $200-300 headphone, don't worry about it. Most headphones are actually not too crazy on the impedance curve. Chances are you're not going to notice anything related to what I just said anyways. Although now that I said it, placebo will kick in. Sorry.
 
I've run grados (32ohms) off a Bottlehead Crack amp before which has an output impedance of 120ohms. It was fine.
 
The only time you absolutely want a very low output impedance is with something like multi driver iems which start atrociously low like 16ohm and swing wildly along the spectrum. But then if you had one of those, you wouldn't be looking at an amp like this anyways.
 
Jul 22, 2014 at 11:05 PM Post #36 of 143
   
Noob question: Why does an output impedance of 10 ohms suggest that the amp is unfit to drive your 30 ohm Philips?  I was considering buying this amp to drive a pair of 32 ohm Grado's.
 
Thanks!


I am far from an expert on the subject but as I understand it, the rule of thumb is that output impedance should be no more than 1/8th of the headphone impedance and ideally zero. So in the case of the 10 ohm output impedance of the Fiio E09K, you'd want to use a headphone with a minimum of 80 ohm impedance, otherwise the output will cause impedance swings that can alter the sound signature of the headphones plugged into it.
 
Jul 22, 2014 at 11:55 PM Post #37 of 143
  Thanks for the quick reply! I guess I should look elsewhere for something to drive my Philips x1's then. 
triportsad.gif

 
30-Ohm headphones being driven by a headphone amplifier that has a 10-Ohm output impedance is not really that bad.
My Essence STX  uses the same TI 6120A2 headphone amplifier chip as the Monoprice DAc/Amp, the STX did fairly well with 32-Ohm and 40-Ohm headphones.
 
Just depends on how much your willing to budget.
 
A Schiit Magni ($99)or Objective 2 (O2, $130) headphone amplifier, which have an output impedance of less then 1-Ohm, is a little more desirable for 30-ohm headphones
But you might also have to spend for a DAC (or sound card with a DAC chip), to work with the external headphone amplifiers.
 
Jul 22, 2014 at 11:59 PM Post #38 of 143
  Noob question: Why does an output impedance of 10 ohms suggest that the amp is unfit to drive your 30 ohm Philips?  I was considering buying this amp to drive a pair of 32 ohm Grado's.

 
It's fit to drive your 32-Ohm headphones if your only willing to budget $100 for a DAC & amp.
The FiiO E07K and E17 have very low output impedance (around 1-Ohm)
A $100 to $130 external headphone amplifier (with a less then 1-ohm output impedance) would be a little more desirable.
But you might also have to buy a DAC too.
 
Jul 23, 2014 at 12:29 AM Post #39 of 143
No one's actually measured the output impedance yet right? Because that 10ohm output is really just the suggested spec from the TP6120A datasheet. They could have used a smaller value resistor, or found some other way to bring it down (I'm just making stuff up here, don't quote me on it).
 
Jul 23, 2014 at 1:04 AM Post #40 of 143
  No one's actually measured the output impedance yet right? Because that 10ohm output is really just the suggested spec from the TP6120A datasheet. They could have used a smaller value resistor, or found some other way to bring it down (I'm just making stuff up here, don't quote me on it).

 
As the Monoprice has a gain switch, the output impedance might change with the gain setting, maybe?
 
Jul 23, 2014 at 1:29 AM Post #41 of 143
Usually changing gain involves fiddling with the resistors in the feedback loop which shouldn't have any effect on the output impedance... but I can only guess here.
 
Jul 23, 2014 at 8:07 AM Post #42 of 143
I'm more interested in the measured DAC performance, tbh. I've got an overabundance of quality amps, but no real stand out DAC other than the ODAC built in to the O2 chassis (which means it can't output to another amp). I'm tempted to just get another ODAC or a Modi to fill my DAC needs but an all in one solution for under $100 with a nice preamp and a powerful amp on its own is one heck of a value proposition.
 
Jul 23, 2014 at 11:39 AM Post #43 of 143
For a shade over $100 you can get a Topping all-in-one speaker amp/headphone amp/dac...
 
Jul 23, 2014 at 11:37 PM Post #44 of 143
So I need a new dac as my E10 has died. I was thinking about a modi or a hifimediy, but now there is this monoprice. I just need a dac. Thoughts?
 

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