[Erick Muller]

If it can push 20volts (I assume in high gain) then you are good to go to order a set! They sold out today but Mod House is doing bi-weekly openings, keep an eye on their twitter account as it has been giving early warnings of the drop. Alternatively you can order the DS version from Mimic Audio today, those are a variant in gray color with purple grills which I've grown fond of and pulled the trigger on. The waiting game starts

Already contacted Aune and apparently my amp can do 16.4v into 150ohm, so if I'm running my DAC balanced into my amp, which would mean I'm getting an extra 4v from it then I should barely by a frog's hair may be able to run the tungsten's in my current set up would you say?

 

[GoldenSound]

Already contacted Aune and apparently my amp can do 16.4v into 150ohm, so if I'm running my DAC balanced into my amp, which would mean I'm getting an extra 4v from it then I should barely by a frog's hair may be able to run the tungsten's in my current set up would you say?

That 16.4v figure is for bal output most likely.

Though keep in mind 16.4V is only a couple dB below 20V

20V is 6dB more than 10V for example.
It's easy to view something as way more powerful but gotta remember stuff scales logarithmically.

Whether or not an amp will run Tungsten isn't about a fixed number but how loud you listen.

I personally don't need more than 10V but someone who listens a few dB louder than me will need twice that

 

[chrisnyc75]

We need a calculator tool. lol

My DAC delivers X volts to my amp.
My amp delivers Y watts to a headphone with 150ohm impedance.
I listen at Z db.
Will my setup drive Tungsten?

 

[cgarciah92]

We need a calculator tool. lol

My DAC delivers X volts to my amp.
My amp delivers Y watts to a headphone with 150ohm impedance.
I listen at Z db.
Will my setup drive Tungsten?

As long as it's called The Tungstenometer

 

[Erick Muller]

That 16.4v figure is for bal output most likely.

Though keep in mind 16.4V is only a couple dB below 20V

20V is 6dB more than 10V for example.
It's easy to view something as way more powerful but gotta remember stuff scales logarithmically.

Whether or not an amp will run Tungsten isn't about a fixed number but how loud you listen.

I personally don't need more than 10V but someone who listens a few dB louder than me will need twice that

Thanks Golden, been following you for sometime now and I really enjoyed your vids, always looking forward to a new release from you and the guys at headphones.com

I'm kind of a loud headphone listener but the hardest to drive headphone I have right now on paper are my SEN HD650's and on my amp I can almost max it out listening to them on high gain, tho I recently found out that going low gain on my S17 volume pot max out at 63 clicks, 100ma mode on and controlling the volume digitally through my SU-8s sounds much better to my ears, so idk if tungstens in my current setup, given my listening habits are going to sound anemic or just fine enough. Again, I don't expect to get 100% performance from my setup but just good enough.

 

[dl95]

Already contacted Aune and apparently my amp can do 16.4v into 150ohm, so if I'm running my DAC balanced into my amp, which would mean I'm getting an extra 4v from it then I should barely by a frog's hair may be able to run the tungsten's in my current set up would you say?

We need a calculator tool. lol

My DAC delivers X volts to my amp.
My amp delivers Y watts to a headphone with 150ohm impedance.
I listen at Z db.
Will my setup drive Tungsten?

From my understanding, you don't simply take the voltage of the DAC and the voltage of the amp and you add it up together. The 16.4V that Aune says is not an independent value, it depends on a particular output voltage from the DAC.

 

[dl95]

That 16.4v figure is for bal output most likely.

Though keep in mind 16.4V is only a couple dB below 20V

20V is 6dB more than 10V for example.
It's easy to view something as way more powerful but gotta remember stuff scales logarithmically.

Whether or not an amp will run Tungsten isn't about a fixed number but how loud you listen.

I personally don't need more than 10V but someone who listens a few dB louder than me will need twice that

Just to note, that a couple of dB can be a very big difference. dB is on a logarithmic scale. A difference of 10 dB is 10x the amount of power but perceived to be twice as loud.

 

[Erick Muller]

From my understanding, you don't simply take the voltage of the DAC and the voltage of the amp and you add it up together. The 16.4V that Aune says is not an independent value, it depends on a particular output voltage from the DAC.

http://aune.hifidiy.net/aune_en/S17pro/S17-2-1040-EN_03.jpgThis is as much as aune was willing to provide me with information with regarding this question.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aune-s17-pro.970060/post-17904097 and here's there reply to me.

 

[chrisnyc75]

From my understanding, you don't simply take the voltage of the DAC and the voltage of the amp and you add it up together. The 16.4V that Aune says is not an independent value, it depends on a particular output voltage from the DAC.

Correct, hence the calculator tool that we need.

 

[dl95]

http://aune.hifidiy.net/aune_en/S17pro/S17-2-1040-EN_03.jpgThis is as much as aune was willing to provide me with information with regarding this question.

Yes, the way they got that 16.4V number is sqrt(1.8W * 150ohms) = 16.4V. Unless they tell you what the voltage the DAC is outputting though to get those numbers, the actual amount of power may be less than that if your DAC is outputting less.

 

[Erick Muller]

Yes, the way they got that 16.4V number is sqrt(1.8W * 150ohms) = 16.4V. Unless they tell you what the voltage the DAC is outputting though to get those numbers, the actual amount of power may be less than that if your DAC is outputting less.

Thanks my dude, this has been really helpful specially for a neophyte like myself.

I will ask Aune if they can provide that information also.

 

[dl95]

Thanks my dude, this has been really helpful specially for a neophyte like myself.

I will ask Aune if they can provide that information also.

I am pretty new to this myself, just been doing a lot of research since I'm trying to figure out how to power the Tungsten myself
It's hard to rely on manufacturer's specs sometimes because their listed numbers may be using a 7V DAC that isn't something most consumers would have and there's not much consistency between different manufacturers on whether they are talking about peak output power vs continuous output power or what their thresholds are for acceptable noise/distortion.

 

[goldwerger]

Already contacted Aune and apparently my amp can do 16.4v into 150ohm, so if I'm running my DAC balanced into my amp, which would mean I'm getting an extra 4v from it then I should barely by a frog's hair may be able to run the tungsten's in my current set up would you say?

I'll try to clafiry (to the limit of my layman technical knowledge):

An amplifier has a max output voltage (at a given load impedance). That's dependent on its power source, cirtucit design, etc (discussed earlier in thread). It has a certain gain, which means by how much it can increase a given input voltage to output voltage. When the input voltage is sufficently low, even after the amplifier's gain is applied to its fullest, it may not reach its max voltage potential. In this case, increasing the input voltage will increase the output voltage (hence volume), upt to the max output voltage available. On the other end, if the input voltage is high enough, the amp may reach its max voltage faster at which point it will saturate and clip. Additional input voltage will not offer more clean amplification but result in distortion.

All of this means that understanding your amp's characteristics can help you figure out what input voltage to use (or same if you start from the DAC end).

So, sorry, not quick formulas. But, in most (not all) cases, DACs have at least two output voltages if they have both single-ended (RCA) and balanced (XLR) outs, and DAPs these days have multiple levels. It's easy to experiment and just see which sounds better, sufficient, or distorted. As @GoldenOne said, different listening volumes require different volumes. That's why common rule of thumb that helps everyone is crude at best. I'd advice finding an amp that yields 20V or more at around 150ohm and almost anyone will have enough headroom for any type of volume preference and genre (I'll mention again that I liked the Cayin C9 quite a bit with the Caldera, and it has nowhere near this voltage; so I'd encourage everyone to experiment).

 

[dl95]

I'll try to clafiry (to the limit of my layman technical knowledge):

An amplifier has a max output voltage (at a given load impedance). That's dependent on its power source, cirtucit design, etc (discussed earlier in thread). It has a certain gain, which means by how much it can increase a given input voltage to output voltage. When the input voltage is sufficently low, even after the amplifier's gain is applied to its fullest, it may not reach its max voltage potential. In this case, increasing the input voltage will increase the output voltage (hence volume), upt to the max output voltage available. On the other end, if the input voltage is high enough, the amp may reach its max voltage faster at which point it will saturate and clip. Additional input voltage will not offer more clean amplification but result in distortion.

All of this means that understanding your amp's characteristics can help you figure out what input voltage to use (or same if you start from the DAC end).

So, sorry, not quick formulas. But, in most (not all) cases, DACs have at least two output voltages if they have both single-ended (RCA) and balanced (XLR) outs, and DAPs these days have multiple levels. It's easy to experiment and just see which sounds better, sufficient, or distorted. As @GoldenOne said, different listening volumes require different volumes. That's why common rule of thumb that helps everyone is crude at best. I'd advice finding an amp that yields 20V or more at around 150ohm and almost anyone will have enough headroom for any type of volume preference and genre (I'll mention again that I liked the Cayin C9 quite a bit with the Caldera, and it has nowhere near this voltage; so I'd encourage everyone to experiment).

So that's 2.6W at 150ohms. Definitely not a lot of amps that can do that, very few under $1000. Flux FA-10 which has been recommended seems like it can probably do that much, not sure if there's anything else..

 

[goldwerger]

So that's 2.6W at 150ohms. Definitely not a lot of amps that can do that, very few under $1000. Flux FA-10 which has been recommended seems like it can probably do that much, not sure if there's anything else..

corret

true, not a lot of amps under 1k

if I looked for an amp for myself I'd probably go for the following around these price ranges (personal tates):
~$1k - a used Well Milo
~$1-1.5k - a used Violectric V281 (or, if you're super lucky, a Glenn OTL)
~1.5-2k - Ferrum Orr

If my budget were limited to few hundreds - I'd consider a used speaker amp (see discussion above). If you don't have pre-amp or volume control in your DAC, you could add a passive preamp with volume control.

I'm neither recommending spending a lot fo money or less, nor am I giving an opinion whehter that's good or bad. Just some ideas what may work based on my very subjective experience. Feel free to use or discard as works for you... hopefully this offers some help to some folks