[anoobis]

There's an interesting and informed article/review here: Salon Entertainment | A master at dangerous play

Just so everyone's aware (I wasn't until I read the article), the complete sessions set is a misnomer. The 2CD set is the original, with a bonus track. The 4CD set is the original, plus tracks from other albums and some unreleased tracks.

I believe that the original sessions were all August 1969, whereas the unreleased tracks weren't. So it's not really a case of just adding what didn't make the original cut.

It is suggested that the original set is more for the purist, whereas the 'complete sessions' is more for the collector. By purist, I mean that the selected tracks offer what the artist wanted to convey and this can be diluted by the addition of the other tracks, e.g. they only modify ideas in the other tracks and the intention was to bring something new with each track.

 

[tru blu]

Not trying to rain on any purist or collector's parade, but it bears reiterating that Miles Davis absolutely hated the idea that those outtakes would find their way into the marketplace. Quite a bit of work (read: creativity) went into making the albums beautiful and discrete, so the extras are just overkill.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not trying to rain on any purist or collector's parade, but it bears reiterating that Miles Davis absolutely hated the idea that those outtakes would find their way into the marketplace. Quite a bit of work (read: creativity) went into making the albums beautiful and discrete, so the extras are just overkill.

While this may be true, I for one, love having outtakes. It gives me a glimpse of what the sessions were like.

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif While this may be true, I for one, love having outtakes. It gives me a glimpse of what the sessions were like.

Tell me more…do you compare outtakes with the album take, or listen to them as sort of entities unto themselves? Just curious…

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tell me more…do you compare outtakes with the album take, or listen to them as sort of entities unto themselves? Just curious…

I listen to them as a whole but view each take as an entity unto itself. I respect the fact that an artist might choose take 4 instead of take 9 and that later, take 9 might be released as a bonus track. I find it fascinating to listen to all those artists talking, working out an arrangement or a vocal phrase until they nail it. Awesome to hear.

Now...what I HATE, absolutely HATE is when engineers use the final takes and splice in alternate takes and release it as if nothing was done. Listen to "Nothing But The Best" by Frank Sinatra. HATED IT!!!! Why they feel the need to revise history beats me but it does anger me when they do it - especially when they delete the entire catalog and proceed to release great music mastered like crap.

However, had the left the originals alone, in original album order, with non-compressed sound, no harmonic excited and added bonus tracks - then that's fine by me.

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif I listen to them as a whole but view each take as an entity unto itself. I respect the fact that an artist might choose take 4 instead of take 9 and that later, take 9 might be released as a bonus track. I find it fascinating to listen to all those artists talking, working out an arrangement or a vocal phrase until they nail it. Awesome to hear.

The one place where outtakes kinda make a difference for me in Miles's catalog is on that Complete Jack Johnson box, because some of those discs contain unreleased jams so extraordinary (and different than what was released) that they could have been entire albums on their own.

On another note, there's a Lee Konitz disc, Motion, where the outtakes really fascinate me…Elvin Jones is on that disc, but most of the tunes were actually recorded with another drummer beforehand. (The earlier stuff is part of a three-CD set.) It's not like the cat's a bad drummer, either, he's just clearly not Elvin. Of course, Motion is now considered a landmark album (Jones plays more minimally than he does with Coltrane, but he's still Elvin) instead of being merely great.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif The one place where outtakes kinda make a difference for me in Miles's catalog is on that Complete Jack Johnson box, because some of those discs contain unreleased jams so extraordinary (and different than what was released) that they could have been entire albums on their own. On another note, there's a Lee Konitz disc, Motion, where the outtakes really fascinate me…Elvin Jones is on that disc, but most of the tunes were actually recorded with another drummer beforehand. (The earlier stuff is part of a three-CD set.) It's not like the cat's a bad drummer, either, he's just clearly not Elvin. Of course, Motion is now considered a landmark album (Jones plays more minimally than he does with Coltrane, but he's still Elvin) instead of being merely great.

Right! I love outtakes like that and those are the ones I appreciate as bonus tracks or tracks in complete box sets.

A real revelation for me was listening to the master tape of Kind of Blue. I loved listening to Miles adjusting the microphone, commenting that their tempo was too fast, etc and then nailing the track that's on the actual record in one take. As soon as the music stops one of them remarks "G*d damnnn, that's hard!".

I think that's awesome!

 

[xaval]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif Right! A real revelation for me was listening to the master tape of Kind of Blue. I loved listening to Miles adjusting the microphone, commenting that their tempo was too fast, etc and then nailing the track that's on the actual record in one take. As soon as the music stops one of them remarks "G*d damnnn, that's hard!". I think that's awesome!

I only have the Columbia remaster. Which record exactly are you referring to? I want it

I also have to take a look into that Jack Johnson box

 

[contr01]

Kind of Blue is probably in the top 10 essential albums that humans have produced since the beginning of time. Congratulations on your purchase.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xaval /img/forum/go_quote.gif I only have the Columbia remaster. Which record exactly are you referring to? I want it

The actual recording took place on March 2, 1959 from 2:30pm to 5:30pm and 7:00pm to 10:00pm. The second part took place on April 22, 1959 from 2:30pm to 5:30pm. That's roughly 9 hours of studio time.

The record I have is completely custom and is a straight transfer from the master tapes - about 76 minutes worth of the masters. If you can find it - expect to pay a pretty penny for it. I did and it was worth every penny as you get full dynamic range and that life-like studio sound.

A cheaper alternative is the 2 CD Columbia remaster. It has parts of the master added as a bonus on the second disc - about 5 minutes worth IIRC.