[imackler]

I think that equation pretty much describes what I'd like the most. In lots of ways, still looking for an in ear that does what the HD600 does so effortlessly.
 
I'm really most looking for universals, but would be open to entry level customs. 
 
I really am not fond of anemic bass, I enjoy clarity and probably despise most a mid bass hump.
 
Any suggestions?
 
I've owned the following if it helps, and found them lacking: ER6i, ER4P, HF5, PFE, IE7, IE8, W2, W3, W4, W4R, UM3X, Triple.fi, SE535, GR10, EX600, EX1000, GR06, GR07, Re262, RE272.

 

[music_4321]

Heaven-S (aka FI-BA-SB).

 

[imackler]

Quote:

Heaven-S (aka FI-BA-SB).

Its nice to hear an option that wasn't on my radar at all. Have you written up any impressions on them anywhere?

 

[Inks]

The SB is muddier (most midbass) than all the mentioned except maybe a R2 GR07, the A1 or SA are also cheaper and slightly smoother in the treble. Matter of fact, treble isn't as extended or smooth as the GR10s in all these FADs. SE535 and GR10 have very similar bass response, honestly can't remember how the GR07 fares here and it depends on the batch. The Shure SE425 with added 75ohms has an almost identical response to the HD600 except with slightly less treble extension. I wish you would narrow things down a bit more. Which IEM got closest to what you want and what did you find lacking. Keep in mind that everything has compromises, like you can't have a boosted bass while having the most transparent midrange, FR physics won't allow it.

 

[Omnirai]

Audio-Technica CK100pro perhaps.
 

 

[imackler]

Quote:

The SB is muddier (most midbass) than all the mentioned except maybe a R2 GR07, the A1 or SA are also cheaper and slightly smoother in the treble. Matter of fact, treble isn't as extended or smooth as the GR10s in all these FADs. SE535 and GR10 have very similar bass response, honestly can't remember how the GR07 fares here and it depends on the batch. The Shure SE425 with added 75ohms has an almost identical response to the HD600 except with slightly less treble extension. I wish you would narrow things down a bit more. Which IEM got closest to what you want and what did you find lacking. Keep in mind that everything has compromises, like you can't have a boosted bass while having the most transparent midrange, FR physics won't allow it.

 
I really don't like muddy midbass! I really, really like the mids and treble on the GR10, though sometimes they were a little treble aggressive. But I can live with that. That was prob after only 30 hours burn in though...at most. I like that the Gr07 and Se535 had more bass extension, and a little slam to them. I don't remember that with the GR10, but it was a while ago. Really, I'd like a GR10 whose bass would have a little more weight/maybe timber. Something that could handle cello lows a little more fully. I've never heard the FX700, but maybe something like that w/ the GR10. If I remember correctly, the RE272 has mids and treble very similar to the GR10. I would similarly be happy with it if it also had more weight/timber on the bass..
 
Very interesting about the SE425 w/ impedance. I've never added impedance to a balanced armature.
 
What is the bass of the Ck100 like?

 

[music_4321]

Never heard the GR07, GR10 or RE272s, so I cannot comment on how the SBs compare to those 3 phones. But, FYI, the FI-BA-SB is NOT muddy at all, and it does NOT have a midbass hump; and if it does, it is so small & subtle that if anything, it makes things sound even better (see FR below). FWIW, I've also had issues with the midbass on several phones I've owned. To these ears, transparency, timbre and a stunning midrange are the three things that stand out on the Heavens.

What is not so great about he SBs is the flat cable, which can be quite unruly, and the rather poor strain reliefs at the housings.
 

EDIT: Forgot to add that texture is quite something on the SBs, too.

 

[Inks]

Quote:

Never heard the GR07, GR10 or RE272s, so I cannot comment on how the SBs compare to those 3 phones. But, FYI, the FI-BA-SB is NOT muddy at all, and it does NOT have a midbass hump; and if it does, it is so small & subtle that if anything, it makes things sound even better (see FR below). FWIW, I've also had issues with the midbass on several phones I've owned. To these ears, transparency, timbre and a stunning midrange are the three things that stand out on the Heavens.

What is not so great about he SBs is the flat cable, which can be quite unruly, and the rather poor strain reliefs at the housings.
 

Notice I did not say the IEM itself is absolutely muddy, it's muddier in relation to those being compare to. That graphs further proved my point, 200-300hz are the regions of mud (though also positively called fullness), the SB has more of it than the SE535 (GR10s will graph about the same as those) and the RE272 have less than all the IEMs mentioned. There's clearly a midbass hump though to be fair it's small compared to what passes as high-end sometimes like the FX700 or IE8. The bass response was almost identical to the SBA03s  when I compared them side-by-side, I have the A161 at the moment which is a SBA03 clone. GR10 and SE535 have a more transparent midrange due to the smaller amount of mud, though if you like it slightly muddier it's often interpreted as textured or more full. 
 
To note, Tyll's graphs are pretty stretched out so what looks like a small hump is actually more significant than it seems. 

 

[music_4321]

I specifically mentioned the fact I hadn't listened to GR07, GR10 or RE272s because, amongst other things, I got the impression imackler thought the SBs were muddy after your previous post, when they are anything but.

"Muddy" and "fullness" are two very different things, not just in meaning but in the context of audio descriptions -- muddiness has a very negative connotation. I know you didn't say "absolutely muddy", but even just "muddy" or "a little muddy" would be pretty far from the SQ the SBs deliver.

The graph I posted and the one you've just posted look quite different. I don't go by graphs as you well know, but someone had posted the SB FR graph elsewhere and I thought it appropriate to post it here to make a point, and knowing that graphs are of paramount importance to you.

 

[gnarlsagan]

Wait for the GR08.

 

[imackler]

This is a really interesting conversation guys! I appreciate the dialogue. 
 
music_4321, could you give a couple quick snapshot comparisons of the FI-BA-SB to some of the other iems we've both owned? Maybe the EX1000, W4, UM3X and SE535... If you have time, of course! I really wish you had heard the GR10... It's probably closest to the ideal iem I've had so far. I just wish it had weighter/fuller bass. 

 

[imackler]

Quote:

Wait for the GR08.

 
It is tempting. What is the release date? 

 

[Inks]

I specifically mentioned the fact I hadn't listened to GR07, GR10 or RE272s because, amongst other things, I got the impression imackler thought the SBs were muddy after your previous post, when they are anything but.

"Muddy" and "fullness" are two very different things, not just in meaning but in the context of audio descriptions -- muddiness has a very negative connotation. I know you didn't say "absolutely muddy", but even just "muddy" or "a little muddy" would be pretty far from the SQ the SBs deliver.

The graph I posted and the one you've just posted look quite different. I don't go by graphs as you well know, but someone had posted the SB FR graph elsewhere and I thought it appropriate to post it here to make a point, and knowing that graphs are of paramount importance to you.

I already defined both in specific FR regions, when you boost it you add fullness but also make the midrange muddier, the two are basically the same. True, in terms of descriptions, muddiness has a huge negative connotation here, which makes no sense since it's often seen as a positive and thus the term "texture" or "fullness" is used instead. That's the silliness of perceptions. The SB are muddy in relation to a more transparent IEM, but again this is seen as a positive at times because it adds fullness. I personally will label the SB as muddy because I look for absolute flatness instead of coloration, adding more note fullness than what's already in the recording is a negative to me. 
 
I actually didn't need to use graphs for this one (since there are many benchmarks me and the OP can go by) and I wasn't, it was when they were introduced did I decide to use it. 
 
If the OP didn't like the bass boost of the W4 or UM3X, don't see him liking the boost of the FADs.
 
SE535ltd may be a choice to consider, I suspect it's very similar to the GR10 with perhaps slightly more bass.
DBA02mkII, B2 and GR01 may be good options to consider as well, Anaxilus can help you with this one as he has the these 3 and the GR10 atm. 

 

[imackler]

Quote:

I already defined both in specific FR regions, when you boost it you add fullness but also make the midrange muddier, the two are basically the same. True, in terms of descriptions, muddiness has a huge negative connotation here, which makes no sense since it's often seen as a positive and thus the term "texture" or "fullness" is used instead. That's the silliness of perceptions. The SB are muddy in relation to a more transparent IEM, but again this is seen as a positive at times because it adds fullness. I personally will label the SB as muddy because I look for absolute flatness instead of coloration, adding more note fullness than what's already in the recording is a negative to me. 
 
I actually didn't need to use graphs for this one (since there are many benchmarks me and the OP can go by) and I wasn't, it was when they were introduced did I decide to use it. 

 
So what do you think about the bass of the GR10? I can you see you're digging it. What kind of music do you think it excels at? You've got some other great iems. How do you like it in comparison to the others? Like I said, its probably my single favorite iem I've owned. At that time, I just missed some of the weight of the HD600 so I sold it and got the HD600; now, I'm missing portability, ease and comfort of a really good iem. I'm considering The GR10 again. Personally, do you EQ it, or use an amp w/ bass boost? I haven't been a fan of bass eqing so far; it makes it warmer but doesn't really give extension or add more weight. 

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

I already defined both in specific FR regions, when you boost it you add fullness but also make the midrange muddier, the two are basically the same. True, in terms of descriptions, muddiness has a huge negative connotation here, which makes no sense since it's often seen as a positive and thus the term "texture" or "fullness" is used instead. That's the silliness of perceptions. The SB are muddy in relation to a more transparent IEM, but again this is seen as a positive at times because it adds fullness. I personally will label the SB as muddy because I look for absolute flatness instead of coloration, adding more note fullness than what's already in the recording is a negative to me. 
 
I actually didn't need to use graphs for this one (since there are many benchmarks me and the OP can go by) and I wasn't, it was when they were introduced did I decide to use it. 

 
 
Just as muddiness and fullness have quite different meanings, "texture" and "fullness" are quite different, too, ie fullness does not equate to texture.
 
I think it's no use going over (again) about your insistence that a flat freq curve is ideal --this, as you know, will lead nowhere--, and that there's nothing better IEM out there than the ER4S and/or CK10 -- and insist that if one doesn't 'get it', it is either because of a poor fit or a preference for some kind of colouration -- which may very well be true in some instances. To me and, apparently, to others, who may not have such bad ears, such flat freq curves do not generally render music and musical instruments as realistically as they are found in the real world.