MEZE AUDIO ELITE - The New Isodynamic Hybrid Array Headphone - official thread

[yrstruly]

XLR balanced reduce soundstage, details? why how

Cos it’s the stock VC one? Vs the ZMF 2k copper even with unbalanced I’m hearing significantly less stage depth and width etc.

Even though Elite is kind of forgiving, it's still behave like TOTL nonetheless. Elite will still reveal "enough" the recording quality. If the sibilance is there inside the song, then nothing much we can do to erase it. Set up wise, your Mojo 2 should be a smooth sounding dac, and Burson GT, while not a butter smooth sounding amp, still a bit at warmer side (especially with V6 Classic Op Amp). ZMF 2K is one of the sweetest sounding copper cable I ever tried, definitely not add sibilance effect.

For DAC upgrade, Gustard R26 should suit you well.

Yeah I hear you but I was somewhat surprised as my Utopia OG presented no such issues with sibilance on my chain - it was however more aggressive/jarring when it came to upper mids in the instrumentation. On the flip side the Elite is generally more relaxed across the board but the vocals have this vaguely sibilant quality - I had this with the Liric but to a greater degree, so maybe it’s a planar or Meze thing for me.

Anyway thanks for the recommendation - have had my eye on the R26 for a while!

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Cos it’s the stock VC one? Vs the ZMF 2k copper even with 4.4 connection I’m hearing significantly less stage depth and width etc.


Yeah I hear you but I was somewhat surprised as my Utopia OG presented no such issues with sibilance on my chain - it was however more aggressive/jarring when it came to upper mids in the instrumentation. On the flip side the Elite is generally more relaxed across the board but the vocals have this vaguely sibilant quality - I had this with the Liric but to a greater degree, so maybe it’s a planar or Meze thing for me.

Anyway thanks for the recommendation - have had my eye on the R26 for a while!

I see, what's this particular song? I would like to try it in my system.

 

[bunnygal23]

my Utopia OG presented no such issues with sibilance on my chain - it was however more aggressive/jarring when it came to upper mids in the instrumentation. On the flip side the Elite is generally more relaxed across the board but the vocals have this vaguely sibilant quality

Hmm have you considered that there is a particular frequency the Elites have that you are particularly sensitive to? I am also very treble sensitive and I ended up with the Elites mainly because I was finally able to listen to some poorly recorded songs without wincing. Outside of EQ'ing, I still find that sibilant songs will stay sibilant just in differing intensities. The sibilance only goes away when I use lower quality transducers or drastically EQ on my Mojo 2. I have found planars to have a certain "shimmer?" to vocals and instruments that I don't get on dynamics so maybe that is what you are really sensitive to?

 

[oniel459]

How often is everyone buying replacement pads? I’m 2+ years in, hours everyday of use, and the hybrid pads are honestly seeming fine.

 

[krude]

I've seen a few people recently comparing their experience with Elite and Utopia, some OG Utopia vs 2022 Utopia.

I'm reminded every now and then rolling tubes that synergy is king. So what you guys are comparing most of the time is synergy of the chain, not much more. Most cans at this level are supremely transparent and need synergy to perform.

I can tell you that OG Utopia driven from the right chain can have better stage, timbre and bass than Elites ... and Elites driven from the right chain can equally be the best thing you've ever heard.

I just rolled my Vindicator to old Kondo 2A3 tubes ... and for some reason I can't put my finger on Elite sounds magical from those tubes in my system for me. It's one of those "I want to scream it sounds so effing good!", but if I drop in other tubes it's completely different, even though it really shouldn't be that different.

So guys, synergy. Both Elite and Utopia have so much plasticity they can really do everything given the right chain.

Also tubes

 

[ThanatosVI]

How often is everyone buying replacement pads? I’m 2+ years in, hours everyday of use, and the hybrid pads are honestly seeming fine.

No need so far and I have the Empyrean since 2019.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

So I am absolutely adoring the Elite. One tiny niggle - getting a hint of vocal sibilance sometimes on my current chain. Not big amounts but I am sensitive to it and it ideally wouldn't be there at all. Think it's more a case of it being exposed in the recording due to how resolving and clean the mids are as opposed to it being "added" per se. This is even with the hybrid pads but I get it with the angled alcantara too. Cable wise I'm using ZMF 2K Copper. Think it's time for a DAC upgrade (thinking a high end R2R) but any suggestions (other than EQ) welcome!

Firstly, for the slightest possibility of saving you thousands, I recommend seeing https://www.head-fi.org/threads/con...bles-mattering-for-audio.970430/post-17816683 (post #8) at least demonstrating the complete lack of measurable differences in magnitude or phase response between Meze's stock and silver-plated premium cables. I do believe that you hear what you hear, but just entertain you to consider the possibility of those differences not being related to the actual physical properties of the cable or gear, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Furthermore, the perceived sibilance is likely related to the shown 6 kHz elevation in those frequency response measurements of the stock hybrid pads, though your own ears might like with bunnygal23's suggestion be amplifying certain frequencies in a manner not seen in others' frequency response measurements. You can check for the location of this treble peak for your own ears by listening for peaks in the loudness of a sine sweep which you can find online (make sure to set the volume to safe levels throughout), else to a pink noise generator while adjusting the frequency of a peaking filter to match and EQ down a perceived peak. Theoretically speaking, there is no way that a DAC upgrade or cable change is physically or electrically going to reduce those sibilant frequencies (sure, psychological factors may influence said perception anyways, though they don't seem to for me), whereby I at least invite you to entertain the opportunity of hearing immediate and free differences (if you have access to parametric EQ on your playback system) from EQing the 6 kHz region down by around 5 dB. I have already shown in my past measurements on Head-Fi that EQ does not introduce nonlinear distortions not related to changes in playback levels, mind can correct a headphone's phase response to produce more incisive transients.

The Mojo 2 is theoretically plenty sufficient and transparent, considering I can already hear wonderful sounds through the FiiO K9 Pro ESS at its price point. Looking at least at the known distortion performance of the Burson Soloist 3XP (as opposed to 3X GT), there may be the slightest chance of the distortion performance affecting perception of sibilance.

Otherwise, I wish you luck in your journey of moulding your experiences with big-ticket gear purchases.

 

[Newsee]

So I am absolutely adoring the Elite. One tiny niggle - getting a hint of vocal sibilance sometimes on my current chain. Not big amounts but I am sensitive to it and it ideally wouldn't be there at all. Think it's more a case of it being exposed in the recording due to how resolving and clean the mids are as opposed to it being "added" per se. This is even with the hybrid pads but I get it with the angled alcantara too. Cable wise I'm using ZMF 2K Copper. Think it's time for a DAC upgrade (thinking a high end R2R) but any suggestions (other than EQ) welcome!

I can recommend you my recent finding, the Merason DAC-1 (without mk ii). Amazingly liquid sounding, no sign of sibilance. I've received it as a loaner to help troubleshooting of the usb input of my dac.

The first wow effect was with this recording. It hit me how live the violin sounded without being ear piercing.

Fantasia for Solo Violin in A Minor "Alia Fantasia" by Isabelle Faust on Qobuz https://open.qobuz.com/track/216359958

The second wow effect was with this. It helped the Elite to show the great stage and the airy presentation, with some out of head experience.

Liberty by Anette Askvik on Qobuz https://open.qobuz.com/track/197320134

 

[yrstruly]

Thanks for the posts all - v helpful.

I see, what's this particular song? I would like to try it in my system.

Just looking through a few of the ones I was listening to yesterday: Mission by Alex G (see the "switchblade switching" around 35 secs), Tropic Morning News by the National, Hysteric by Yeah Yeah Yeahs (also the snare hits on that grate a little bit), Bulimic by the Used. I reiterate though that this effect isn't to a degree that it's very bothersome as it can be with some other cans. I do think it might just be a case of the any sibilance in the recording being revealed. A lot of other cans I've had have probably tended to mask this (even the Utopia OG to an extent, but only on vocals as it was otherwise far more fatiguing than the Elite).

Hmm have you considered that there is a particular frequency the Elites have that you are particularly sensitive to? I am also very treble sensitive and I ended up with the Elites mainly because I was finally able to listen to some poorly recorded songs without wincing. Outside of EQ'ing, I still find that sibilant songs will stay sibilant just in differing intensities. The sibilance only goes away when I use lower quality transducers or drastically EQ on my Mojo 2. I have found planars to have a certain "shimmer?" to vocals and instruments that I don't get on dynamics so maybe that is what you are really sensitive to?

This is very well put - think you might be bang on the money. "Shimmer" is definitely how it sounds.

Firstly, for the slightest possibility of saving you thousands, I recommend seeing https://www.head-fi.org/threads/con...bles-mattering-for-audio.970430/post-17816683 (post #8) at least demonstrating the complete lack of measurable differences in magnitude or phase response between Meze's stock and silver-plated premium cables. I do believe that you hear what you hear, but just entertain you to consider the possibility of those differences not being related to the actual physical properties of the cable or gear, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Furthermore, the perceived sibilance is likely related to the shown 6 kHz elevation in those frequency response measurements of the stock hybrid pads, though your own ears might like with bunnygal23's suggestion be amplifying certain frequencies in a manner not seen in others' frequency response measurements. You can check for the location of this treble peak for your own ears by listening for peaks in the loudness of a sine sweep which you can find online (make sure to set the volume to safe levels throughout), else to a pink noise generator while adjusting the frequency of a peaking filter to match and EQ down a perceived peak. Theoretically speaking, there is no way that a DAC upgrade or cable change is physically or electrically going to reduce those sibilant frequencies (sure, psychological factors may influence said perception anyways, though they don't seem to for me), whereby I at least invite you to entertain the opportunity of hearing immediate and free differences (if you have access to parametric EQ on your playback system) from EQing the 6 kHz region down by around 5 dB. I have already shown in my past measurements on Head-Fi that EQ does not introduce nonlinear distortions not related to changes in playback levels, mind can correct a headphone's phase response to produce more incisive transients.

The Mojo 2 is theoretically plenty sufficient and transparent, considering I can already hear wonderful sounds through the FiiO K9 Pro ESS at its price point. Looking at least at the known distortion performance of the Burson Soloist 3XP (as opposed to 3X GT), there may be the slightest chance of the distortion performance affecting perception of sibilance.

Otherwise, I wish you luck in your journey of moulding your experiences with big-ticket gear purchases.

Super helpful and informative - will look into this (probably when my tinnitus isn't playing up like today!). Many thanks.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Tinnitus is indeed a menace, whether it could possibly be a contributor to my not hearing the crazy improvements in "detail" or "soundstage" others describe. At least it hasn't gotten in the way of my experience of live classical concerts. I am otherwise much an advocate of systematic A/Bing between headphones at least foremost establishing a fair volume match.

As much as I advocate for EQ, I must admit that there certainly do exist tracks like Kaneko Ayano's songs for which the Meze Elite hybrid pads lend a quite lovely warmth to the vocals without hurting clarity as they might for Susumu Hirasawa's vocals mind orchestral music. Otherwise, I do prefer the idea of "breaking the circle of confusion" and establishing some objective and measurable standard of neutrality (literally sticking in-ear mics into my ears, measuring my 30-degree speaker response, and EQing my headphones to match while applying HRTF-rendering software) which for me does lend to excellent clarity and vividness for great recordings.

I actually recently had a gaff where after spending a few days mainly listening through the HE1000se, upon returning to my neutral speaker simulation software and free-field EQ, everything was sounding completely off, my fearing that I had already experienced "severe mental burn-in" in adjusting to the recently acquired HE1000se's tonality. Goodness, my relief when I confirmed that Equalizer APO had simply somehow come to apply the same EQ profile to two devices within the same audio stream, effectively doubling up the EQ and killing the mids and bass, whereby my favourite Brahms Symphony No. 3 and 4 recordings were back to sounding wonderful.

@yrstruly Lately checking out your example tracks, when looking at a spectrum analyzer, those S's do seem to excite the 6 kHz to 10 kHz region which is typically associated with "sibilance", though I can say that even attempting a -10 dB peaking filter with a Q factor of 3 (wide as opposed to narrow) around that area, one can't completely eliminate the 'S', else I happen to not be hearing the "unpleasant" sibilance you might be hearing. I for example am actually hearing the snares in "Hysteric" as sounding relatively "relaxed" through the unEQed hybrid pads despite my knowing that that region sounds elevated for me for orchestral or spectrally dense music.

One tidbit is how Kaneko Ayano's singing may sometimes bring out the "shout" in some frequency responses. E.g. Here is a spectrum analysis of said shout within "Grapefruit":

That lands those vocals right within the "ear gain region" from 2 kHz to 5 kHz which our ears naturally amplify, so those parts could get a bit grating for me, whereby some headphones like the Meze Elite do relax that region. I otherwise haven't found frequency response or EQ changes that can really remove that "piercing" or "strained" quality which is probably inherent to the harmonic distribution of her vocals.

 

[yrstruly]

I used a 2K Copper with my Elite and had zero complaints. I happened to get a Verite Silver cable with a Verite Closed I bought, and now I use that, mostly because it matches the Elite so perfectly.

I don’t feel like I give up anything with the Angled pads. Bass quantity is still sufficient, but bass quality goes up quite a bit. I think you’ll like having them as an option.

You were right about the angled pads btw - I bloody love how precise the bass sounds with them! Very satisfying.

 

[Sunset1982]

I use the angled pads, too. I like the sound a lot. When I am gaming, I give the bass +3db on my RME ADI2 DAC and I love it. The pressure and bass from explosions together wirh the soundstage and imaging is insane! I can hear every enemy and the direction where he comes from. My friends can't hear that precise with their bluetooth headsets.

 

[Quarzer]

Thinking of replaces my xDuoo TA-22 with an D70Pro Octo/A70Pro stack. Would that be a fit? I think the sound would be sharper and cleaner afterwards, but that would be fit my preferences for the Elite.
Had the TA-22 before the Elite with an HEK Stealth and Final D8000 Pro. And for both of the the xDuoo was nicer than an SS Amp. But I think the Elite do not need the smoothness of tubes.

 

[LoryWiv]

Thinking of replaces my xDuoo TA-22 with an D70Pro Octo/A70Pro stack. Would that be a fit? I think the sound would be sharper and cleaner afterwards, but that would be fit my preferences for the Elite.
Had the TA-22 before the Elite with an HEK Stealth and Final D8000 Pro. And for both of the the xDuoo was nicer than an SS Amp. But I think the Elite do not need the smoothness of tubes.

Elite on my McChanson UltimatE tube amp. is a VERY well-matched combination.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Angled Alacantara is in the house. I can see why some people prefer it, because it "clean" up the mid-bass / lower mid area and provide airier presentation on top. Elite become not "heavyweight" sounding anymore, but more to "normal" character. I can like this pad a lot, if only Midrange/Upper mid not become thinner as well (which is the case here).

Depend on the songs, I can enjoy both Angled Alcantara and Hybrid Earpad, but I think Hybrid is more versatile for my playlist.

p.s: Elite with Angled Alcantara still produce fuller body tonality than Empyrean 2 with its Duo Pad.