[Roybenz]

Quick second update... I am still as much in awe as I was the first time.... Shocked actually by the sheer improvement the angled pads bring....

Getting mine tomorrow. Exited to try them, will try it first before getting a silver cable. Have the silver upgrade cable but it’s silver plated and not full silver.

 

[TheAttorney]

EQ setup and fast headphone A/Bing:
You can obtain my latest Equalizer APO setup here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/13DMX1xImBsQjzRK2bbB565txfQGSRMp8/view?usp=share_link.

Firsly, thank you for a very detailed and informative response. Much food for thought.

Can you possibly post your final Elite hybrid EQ settings here on this thread? Text form is fine for me to manually enter into my Roon PEQ (the only one I have available to me currently). I can't download from your google drive location and I'm not prepared to register or login to new apps or services in order to do so.

I've tried other EQ recommenations before, with underwhelming results, but I'd like to have another go with your much more detailed settings to see if I can get closer to hearing what you're hearing.

As for comfort, I find the Alcantara's texture a bit too "rough" compared to the exquisitely gentle and welcoming feel of the fabric that lines HiFiMan earpads.

I did find the angled Alcantara's texture to be very slightly rougher than the og Alcantara pads. I put this down to sample variation, but maybe Meze has changed the formula?
A big factor of comfort of the various pads is whether your ears are big enough to be impacted by the much shallower hybrid pads, Sounds like you don't have that issue.

As for soundstaging, taking into consideration my stances already described in post #4,660, I don't experience that much of an advantage compared to the hybrid pads, mind I might even still prefer the latter's "presentation" of large soundfronts like the orchestral tuttis that open Mahler 5...​

As for imaging, I don't hear much improvement over the hybrid pads, or the differences between these or the Arya are too minor for me to care, whereby my stance in post #4,660 regarding imaging applies.

This bit puzzles me. The difference to sound stage and image presentation is to me immediately obvious between the Hybrids and Angled (before any EQ). This mostly with non-classical music. I don't understand that you appear to be minimising these differences.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Can you possibly post your final Elite hybrid EQ settings here on this thread? Text form is fine for me to manually enter into my Roon PEQ (the only one I have available to me currently). I can't download from your google drive location and I'm not prepared to register or login to new apps or services in order to do so.

I suppose I forgot that not everyone has Gmail, mind that I could now directly upload files after a few posts. I have attached it here. That whole folder and readme.txt is mainly for the whole Equalizer APO experience. Here is the text for that EQ (I'll add it to the original post, too):

GraphicEQ: 20 3; 50 2.5; 63 0; 80 -1; 125 -2; 200 -5; 240 -4.5; 300 -4.5; 420 -3.5; 500 -3.5; 600 -4.5; 670 -3.5; 750 -1.5; 830 0; 900 0.5; 1060 2; 1200 4; 1300 5.5; 1400 5.5; 1600 6; 1700 6.5; 1920 5.2; 2250 5; 2500 2.8; 2850 1; 3150 0; 3500 0; 3750 0; 4000 1.8; 5000 1; 5400 -2; 6000 -6; 6300 -8; 6800 -7; 7300 -6; 7800 -5; 8000 -3; 9350 0; 20000 0

This profile does require variable-band graphic EQ, though I suppose it can be adapted to a fixed-band graphic EQ, though such would limit the extent to which you can fine-tune the EQ for your own ears. I also cannot say whether Equalizer APO's implementation of graphic EQ would be audibly better (less DSP EQ distortions or artifacts) than your own EQ method of choice or vice versa.

Again, as described in my post, pink noise and sine sweeps may need to be used to fine tune it to your ears, or you might need to raise some areas (e.g. 5 kHz to 7 kHz region) that aren't actually amplified by your ears as they are on mine. The main difference from the stock angled Alcantara tuning is a clearer bass to midrange (for my ears), a fuller ear gain region, and for noisier tracks like described in my post, the treble activity between 5 kHz to 7 kHz will be relaxed or brought to a more balanced level.

A big factor of comfort of the various pads is whether your ears are big enough to be impacted by the much shallower hybrid pads, Sounds like you don't have that issue.

Indeed, the hybrid pads do not touch my ears at all, fortunately, so the angled Alcantara pads are thus not advantageous to me in this regard.

This bit puzzles me. The difference to sound stage and image presentation is to me immediately obvious between the Hybrids and Angled (before any EQ). This mostly with non-classical music. I don't understand that you appear to be minimising these differences.

One possibility might be perceived sound stage and imaging changes from the relatively drastic change in tonality between the pads, but I could be wrong. E.g. Yes, the hybrid pads on their own sound almost like being in a tube (without the echoes), whereby putting on the angled Alcantara pads without another neutral headphone or EQ reference can feel like coming out of that tube into the sweltering heat (how I might describe the remaining bass to midrange elevation). And I suppose I didn't listen to the hybrid pads' stock tuning as much due to its far divergence from my ideals, though I would consider imaging independent of tonality. Susumu Hirasawa's music is definitely not classical and contains plenty of electronic music and plenty of instrument or soundtrack placements and layering, less so movement or panning. If you could recommend some test tracks and a description of what you hear there, I could try seeing if I perceive the same.

It could be the usual matter of each of us having slightly different definitions or personal experiences with these terms. From what I've heard, "soundstage" is the sense or size of space, and how large the bounds of the sonic image appears within that space. E.g. If I use the pencil sounds at the start of Yosi Horikawa's "Letter", panning from left to right, I do get some out of head experiences, but even compared to my old $200 to $300 headphones, I realized that the image size or the bounds of that virtual pencil's motion were nigh identical between all these headphones, just that these cheaper headphones with their smaller drivers and earpads had a greater sense of this same image size intersecting or being obstructed by the drivers; larger drivers or ear spaces like with the Arya and Elite present less of this obstructing feel. For reference, to me, the pencil starts on the left, then progresses to behind the left ear, then somewhat close behind the head, progressing to the right, then proceeds "very far" to the right, though I suppose whether intentionally within the recording or due to my inability to turn my head towards the virtual pencil, the pencil seems to curve backwards a bit and proceed at an oblique angle before stopping. Now, maybe some headphones might have the pencil feeling a bit further behind my head, particularly the Arya. I think the ATH-M50xBT had the pencil feeling more like it was going through the back of my head, but this comparative experience might have not been consistent.

 

[Roybenz]

The Angled pads arrived, and they are awesome. They clean up the elites sound, making it bigger also. They brought the elite to chat I was dreaming of. It sounds very close to susvara but with more warmth and bass. Sold my susvara after trying all sorts of amps and dacs, finally found the sound I wanted with elite. So happy with the sound and comfort

 

[ThanatosVI]

The Angled pads arrived, and they are awesome. They clean up the elites sound, making it bigger also. They brought the elite to chat I was dreaming of. It sounds very close to susvara but with more warmth and bass. Sold my susvara after trying all sorts of amps and dacs, finally found the sound I wanted with elite. So happy with the sound and comfort

Time to adjust that avatar

 

[WDitters]

Time to adjust that avatar

Yep .. erase the Susvara from existence there

 

[TheAttorney]

I suppose I forgot that not everyone has Gmail, mind that I could now directly upload files after a few posts. I have attached it here. That whole folder and readme.txt is mainly for the whole Equalizer APO experience. Here is the text for that EQ (I'll add it to the original post, too):

GraphicEQ: 20 3; 50 2.5; 63 0; 80 -1; 125 -2; 200 -5; 240 -4.5; 300 -4.5; 420 -3.5; 500 -3.5; 600 -4.5; 670 -3.5; 750 -1.5; 830 0; 900 0.5; 1060 2; 1200 4; 1300 5.5; 1400 5.5; 1600 6; 1700 6.5; 1920 5.2; 2250 5; 2500 2.8; 2850 1; 3150 0; 3500 0; 3750 0; 4000 1.8; 5000 1; 5400 -2; 6000 -6; 6300 -8; 6800 -7; 7300 -6; 7800 -5; 8000 -3; 9350 0; 20000 0

Thank you MrHaelscheir.

But I'm still missing something. In Roon PEQ, we have 4 parameters: Type (e.g. peak, shelf), Frequency, Gain (in dB), and Q.

In above, and in the downloaded CSV files, there only appears to be Frequency and Gain?

 

[Toonartist]

Just rolled in the Mullard M8136 tubes with the Angled Pads. Great bass extension, not as much as the Siemens (which are a lot more dynamic tube) but the separation and layering are breath taking. Amazing sense of space, very 3 dimensional with crystal clear clarity, detail without being fatiguing. Listening to Agnes Obel and it's the best she's sounded on my system. These angled pads really are a no brainer if you don't have them already

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Thank you MrHaelscheir.

But I'm still missing something. In Roon PEQ, we have 4 parameters: Type (e.g. peak, shelf), Frequency, Gain (in dB), and Q.

In above, and in the downloaded CSV files, there only appears to be Frequency and Gain?

The text I shared is for variable-band graphic EQ, which is effectively like "connect-the-dots" control of an EQ compensation curve. I unfortunately do not have an equivalent parametric EQ version prepared yet, but may try to create one this evening, EST. The attached files on their own and per the readme.txt therein are best used with Equalizer APO. If you are interested, setup of Equalizer APO is relatively quick other than one's needing to during installation select the playback device that the EQ will be applied to, reboot your PC to complete installation, and then copy the attached folder into C:\Program Files\EqualizerAPO\config, replacing the existing config.txt file (or merging the contents if you already have one set up). I believe Equalizer APO should be able to operate without conflicting with Roon.

 

[turbofeet]

I have been giving the angled pads more of a go on the Elites and yes they are indeed quite nice.

There is a touch more air and detail but for me it can result in them getting a little bright and slightly leaner sounding overall. The brightness is only with my most detailed tubes however (Melz 1578) which do eek out every bit of detail but the Hybrids do not do this with the same tracks. Example:

Killing The Blues by Shawn Colvin
https://open.qobuz.com/track/36793

With slightly warmer tubes (Brimar CV1988) and adding a few db in the bass region and they are a lot better and I like them quite a lot. I still think the Hybrid pads might be better balanced overall...I honestly can't decide.

More testing to be done!

This track was a good test track for these comparisons as it builds up very nicely:

You're So Cool by Hans Zimmer
https://open.qobuz.com/track/45524729

I think synergy with the source equipment is key here.

 

[betula]

I think synergy with the source equipment is key here.

I think, this assessment is very true. Some systems will prefer the hybrid pads while others the angled Alcantara. I am yet to buy the new pads for testing, there are two reasons for this delay: I am very happy with the hybrid pads on my current system, I find the price of £200 for a set of earpads outrageous.

 

[oniel459]

I too have been hesitant to get the angled Alcantara, primarily because it seems to attract those who haven’t been that happy with the hybrids nor the og Alcantara, and who simply feel there’s a veil in the elites, even with an upgrade cable. I personally do not fall in that camp.

Is there anybody who went from loving the hybrids, to also loving the angled Alcantara?

 

[MrHaelscheir]

@TheAttorney I have attached the 19-filter PEQ in "Meze Elite - GRAS - neutral reference V1 PEQ equivalent.txt". "LSC" means low-shelf filter. "HSC" means high-shelf filter. "PK" means peaking filter. "Fc" denotes the frequency center. To hear the same A/B volume levels as I do, you will need to be able to switch between one preset where there is a -6.5 dB preamp, but no parametric filters, and another preset containing a -9.0 dB preamp and the 19 parametric filters. I do not know Roon's EQ export file format and thus couldn't format one for you to quickly import, if that is even possible.

Methodology and findings: I started by having my reference graphic EQ activated with all preamp settings turned off, then added parametric filters and a preamp offset to EQ this down to 0. Disabling the reference graphic EQ leaves behind the inverse (vertical flip) of the target EQ being modeled parametrically. The gains for all the parametric filters are then flipped in sign, and preamp settings adjusted, yielding the final PEQ equivalent. I also added 39 optional fine-tuning filters that bring the deviation down to +-0.1 dB. The practical effect of this fine-tuning EQ is that it brings the EQ curve closer to the graphic EQ's sharp "connect-the-dots" corners. In practice, the difference between the smoothed 19-filter PEQ and the fine-tuned one or the original variable-band graphic EQ is minimal, mind the smoother 19-filter PEQ as attached has a chance of achieving a smoother perceived since sweep than the "connect-the-dots" variable-band graphic EQ. Otherwise, as for parametric versus variable-band graphic EQ, neither sounds more transparent to me or seems to exhibit superior phase characteristics, both already sounding excellently transparent and from my own finding capable of EQing two headphones to tonally sound nigh identical. http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Acustica-samples/Dirac.wav (single-sample transient/impulse) also sounds effectively identical between either, and neither seem to add pre or post ringing on top of the unEQed transient sound. The 19-filter PEQ on its own does use up more CPU power than the variable-band graphic EQ, but has a shorter initialization time.

Context for other readers: This is an EQ profile I fine-tuned for my own ears and the resonances I hear. It is meant to be used with the Meze Elite with the hybrid pads. The file itself can be directly imported into Equalizer APO, though it will need at least an additional -6.5 dB preamp to avoid digital clipping. It is the culmination of my findings as discussed in my past few messages. My subjective finding and hence argument in favour of EQ is that substantial clarity and instrument separation is achieved surpassing what I hear through the angled Alcantara pads. Particularly, excessive warmth or remaining "bloat" impacting clarity and balance is tamed, the ear gain region from 1 kHz to 4 kHz is filled, yielding the fullest tones, and a prominent resonance I heard between 5 kHz to 8 kHz is EQed down, removing overamplified treble noise that I hear polluting spectrally busy tracks such as orchestral works or heavily layered masters, in turn yielding a more spacious sound. This creates a very smooth frequency response where nothing stands out that shouldn't, laying out the music in a beautifully balanced fashion where any warmth inherent to the track can still shine through. Note that my ears' diffuse-field frequency response and ear resonances may not be the same as yours, particularly, you might not be as sensitive in the 6 to 8 kHz region as I and might want to EQ that area back up. As a guideline, when listening to pink noise, that zone should not stick out, or when listening to a sine sweep through that region, the perceived volume of pure tones should not be increasing so much from 4 kHz to 7 kHz when diffuse-field or Harman and equal loudness contours predict that the loudness should be constant or decreasing. The same goes for the region around 3.5 kHz which I had to EQ down a bit.

For those already exploring my Equalizer APO files shared in post #4,665: I have attached "Meze Elite - PEQ files.zip" containing the optional fine-tuning EQ profile, the original inverted profiles, an updated "Meze Elite - GRAS.txt" that allows you to see how enabling the inverted profiles flattens the original graphic EQ, and a new "Meze Elite - GRAS - PEQ.txt" file already preamp-matched with "Meze Elite - GRAS.txt" for easy swapping and comparison.

New music suggestion: The Simon Gaudenz recording of Mahler 5 has been my favourite for a time along with Zubin Mehta's (more energy and impetus with this interpretation, especially in the second movement), but goodness, did the opening of Pierre Boulez's recording when turned up with my EQ plus bs2b crossfeed over foobar2000 sound quite close to what I experienced at the concert hall in the middle of the orchestra level in terms of dynamic range and the feeling of being blasted by an absolutely massive soundfront. Really, when I was there, it wasn't my body that felt it; it was my ears, head, and face. As for this recording, at "lifelike" in-concert volume, my sound meter clocked around 98.5 dB, while I'm pretty sure the real concert brought that further to 105 dB.

Hmm. I wonder if I should attempt to fine-tune a compensation curve that EQs the hybrid pads into the Alcantara pads... If anything, it may provide a sample of what it sounds like, though obviously not what it feels like.

 

[Roybenz]

I too have been hesitant to get the angled Alcantara, primarily because it seems to attract those who haven’t been that happy with the hybrids nor the og Alcantara, and who simply feel there’s a veil in the elites, even with an upgrade cable. I personally do not fall in that camp.

Is there anybody who went from loving the hybrids, to also loving the angled Alcantara?

I liked the hybrids the most. But the angled makes them just right. It clears up the sound, more air, little less bass. Compared to hybrid.

 

[ckhirnigs113]

I don’t think I’d want any less bass, so I’m going to stick with the hybrids. I am intrigued to try the angled pads, but not $200 intrigued.