[betula]

I got back to my Elite and TT2 after two weeks of holiday.

As I touched on it in previous years, brief audio deprivation can have a lot of benefits. Listening to your system with fresh ears can save you a lot of money in many cases. You might find that long awaited upgrade is not needed or you might go to a different direction.

Also, sometimes it might take a day or two to fully appreciate your system. (This was not the case with my Elite/TT2 combo.)
Still, I had some new thoughts listening to them after two weeks of break which I am sharing here.
I think, the vast majority of audiophiles are pursuing ultimate clarity, detail, resolution, speed, finesse. There is nothing wrong with that, these are extremely important qualities. In fact, I have been pursuing these qualities most of the time.

I have been building my system along these lines, but I was in the 'sub-group' who never forgot the connection to musicality. By musicality I mean an engaging and emotionally involving sound as opposed to some sterile studio perfection.
I think, more or less the end of this route (musicality but still with high-end level of clarity and resolution is my combo (Elite/TT2), at least when it comes to headphone listening. Anything more analytical, more resolving, cleaner will sound like a microscope, lacking emotions. Anything 'below' this will have lesser technicalities (speed, resolution, detail, refinement) but might have more body, more texture, and thickness. Qualities that are often overlooked in the crazy chase of the very last detail.
Now I can fully understand someone going for a less detailed R2R DAC or a thick and sweet sounding tube amp that might lack speed/ultimate detail and refinement.

I think, all of us have a perfect sound in mind which does not actually exist. Perhaps we could knead the perfect sound from all the loved ingredients we ever heard, but our preference changes too.
We all know, endgame does not exist. Whether there is exit from the hobby is debatable. Tyll Herstens managed to leave, so it is doable. Your endgame system is the one you leave the hobby with.

My circumstances are about to change in the foreseeable future, so there is a good chance Elite and TT2 will be my 'end' game. And I am very happy and satisfied with this result of 10 years of buying/selling/auditioning on a relatively low budget.

This headphone and DAC/amp combo represents ultimate, TOTL, high-end level of headphone listening when it comes to technicalities. Space, positioning, clarity, resolution, detail are there in abundance. Sure, for heavy money (like an MScaler) this can be further improved. But to me this combo is a hard stretch of my budget already.

This particular combo is not just in the most advanced league technically; it also retains that addictive level of musicality which the reason is we are listening to music. Sure, I love the fact those super capacitors are working and Rob Watts unique FPGA design is doing its job. I also love the unique trace patterns on the Elite's driver (transducer), the thinner diaphragm that allows a more detailed and more balanced sound versus the Empyrean.

Ultimately music led us into this hobby. So regardless how technically perfect your gear is, if it does not offer the 'X' factor aka musical enjoyment when you sink into the artist's mysterious connection to the eternal; you just bought a machine.

The Elite to me retains that last string of connection to this magical musical world while it still competes with all those analytically and technically perfect ultimate audio machines.

 

[devilboy]

Wow. Very well said.

 

[Andykong]

Seems counter-intuitive. I mean

I = sqrt(P/R)

doesn't change just because the driver is planar vs dynamic, right?

And P is directly tied to sensitivity, so if sensitivity is the same, then power requirements are the same.

According to your theory, 3xBA IEM, 50cm full-size dynamic headphone, and 100cm dual-size magnetic array planar headphone will have exactly the same power requirement as long as their impedance and sensitivity are the similar enough?

 

[Andykong]

I got back to my Elite and TT2 after two weeks of holiday.

As I touched on it in previous years, brief audio deprivation can have a lot of benefits. Listening to your system with fresh ears can save you a lot of money in many cases. You might find that long awaited upgrade is not needed or you might go to a different direction.

Also, sometimes it might take a day or two to fully appreciate your system. (This was not the case with my Elite/TT2 combo.)
Still, I had some new thoughts listening to them after two weeks of break which I am sharing here.
I think, the vast majority of audiophiles are pursuing ultimate clarity, detail, resolution, speed, finesse. There is nothing wrong with that, these are extremely important qualities. In fact, I have been pursuing these qualities most of the time.

I have been building my system along these lines, but I was in the 'sub-group' who never forgot the connection to musicality. By musicality I mean an engaging and emotionally involving sound as opposed to some sterile studio perfection.
I think, more or less the end of this route (musicality but still with high-end level of clarity and resolution is my combo (Elite/TT2), at least when it comes to headphone listening. Anything more analytical, more resolving, cleaner will sound like a microscope, lacking emotions. Anything 'below' this will have lesser technicalities (speed, resolution, detail, refinement) but might have more body, more texture, and thickness. Qualities that are often overlooked in the crazy chase of the very last detail.
Now I can fully understand someone going for a less detailed R2R DAC or a thick and sweet sounding tube amp that might lack speed/ultimate detail and refinement.

I think, all of us have a perfect sound in mind which does not actually exist. Perhaps we could knead the perfect sound from all the loved ingredients we ever heard, but our preference changes too.
We all know, endgame does not exist. Whether there is exit from the hobby is debatable. Tyll Herstens managed to leave, so it is doable. Your endgame system is the one you leave the hobby with.

My circumstances are about to change in the foreseeable future, so there is a good chance Elite and TT2 will be my 'end' game. And I am very happy and satisfied with this result of 10 years of buying/selling/auditioning on a relatively low budget.

This headphone and DAC/amp combo represents ultimate, TOTL, high-end level of headphone listening when it comes to technicalities. Space, positioning, clarity, resolution, detail are there in abundance. Sure, for heavy money (like an MScaler) this can be further improved. But to me this combo is a hard stretch of my budget already.

This particular combo is not just in the most advanced league technically; it also retains that addictive level of musicality which the reason is we are listening to music. Sure, I love the fact those super capacitors are working and Rob Watts unique FPGA design is doing its job. I also love the unique trace patterns on the Elite's driver (transducer), the thinner diaphragm that allows a more detailed and more balanced sound versus the Empyrean.

Ultimately music led us into this hobby. So regardless how technically perfect your gear is, if it does not offer the 'X' factor aka musical enjoyment when you sink into the artist's mysterious connection to the eternal; you just bought a machine.

The Elite to me retains that last string of connection to this magical musical world while it still competes with all those analytically and technically perfect ultimate audio machines.

Very well said, plain and sincere from a long-term user.

I think, all of us have a perfect sound in mind which does not actually exist. Perhaps we could knead the perfect sound from all the loved ingredients we ever heard, but our preference changes too.

This is so true and is universally applicable to almost every hobby, or even every part of our life. We might have a perfect car in mind but it does not actually exist. We might have a perfect movie in mind but it does not actually exist. We might have a perfect lover in mind but he/she does not actually exist. Only those who learn to master their passion and expectation like you are blessed in their hobbies. Glad you find the Elite/TT2 combo, this is another blessing as an audiophile: find a sound system that you don't have any desire to go beyond, and you can afford it, and you have owned it. Being able to put the "machines" aside and focus on the musical experience is a noble choice, and this reminded me of the famous saying "Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish".

By the way, no intention to add MScalar to your TT2?

 

[Newsee]

According to your theory, 3xBA IEM, 50cm full-size dynamic headphone, and 100cm dual-size magnetic array planar headphone will have exactly the same power requirement as long as their impedance and sensitivity are the similar enough?

Yes. It goes along the question: what is heavier? 1 kg steel or 1 kg feather?

 

[betula]

By the way, no intention to add MScalar to your TT2?

There is intention for a lot more than just an MScaler, but finances are limited, so I focus on enjoying what I have. Even the Elite alone is out of reach for probably the majority of audiophiles, so I consider myself lucky. There is always further, but also there might come a point where you just stop, relax and enjoy.

 

[Atriya]

There is intention for a lot more than just an MScaler, but finances are limited, so I focus on enjoying what I have. Even the Elite alone is out of reach for probably the majority of audiophiles, so I consider myself lucky. There is always further, but also there might come a point where you just stop, relax and enjoy.

Just a note that many people enjoy software upscaling using HQPlayer or PGGB as an alternative to the MScaler. It is also much cheaper. A device called the Audiowise SRC-DX can also be used to convert an upscaled USB signal to dual-coax just like an MScaler. I have no affiliation to any of these companies.

 

[RobbieBear]

The Elites perform pretty well through the xDSD and, for listening whilst away in the campervan, it is a superb portable rig.
However, I was OK outside but inside the van they just disturb my wife too much.

Having decided I now need closed headphones for when we're away, I have just agreed a sale with another head-fier for a pair of Verite Closed.
Hopefully, these should allow me to really enjoy my tunes in the camper without upsetting my wife when she's reading.

I will keep my Elites for listening at home.

I am not expecting my IFI xDSD to drive the Verites properly so am asking you guys to recommend a great transportable DAC/amp to work with these headphones.
It doesn't need to be totally portable as I would never use it on the go but obviously a desk top rig would be out of the question.

 

[xenithon]

The Elites perform pretty well through the xDSD and, for listening whilst away in the campervan, it is a superb portable rig.
However, I was OK outside but inside the van they just disturb my wife too much.

Having decided I now need closed headphones for when we're away, I have just agreed a sale with another head-fier for a pair of Verite Closed.
Hopefully, these should allow me to really enjoy my tunes in the camper without upsetting my wife when she's reading.

I will keep my Elites for listening at home.

I am not expecting my IFI xDSD to drive the Verites properly so am asking you guys to recommend a great transportable DAC/amp to work with these headphones.
It doesn't need to be totally portable as I would never use it on the go but obviously a desk top rig would be out of the question.

I can strongly suggest the Cayin C9 if you already have a decent DAP. It works beautifully with the Elite and (from people I’ve spoken to) works really well with ZMF headphones too.

 

[LCMusicLover]

According to your theory, 3xBA IEM, 50cm full-size dynamic headphone, and 100cm dual-size magnetic array planar headphone will have exactly the same power requirement as long as their impedance and sensitivity are the similar enough?

Yes, that’s what the math says.

Sensitivity is expressed as dB/mW (or per watt for speakers). So if the sensitivity is the same, then the power needed to create some SPL would also be the the same by definition.

Current is a different story — once you calculate the power required for a given SPL, the transducer’s impedance determines the current needed to deliver that amount of power into that impedance. Obviously, lower impedance means more current is needed to achieve the same power output.

As an experiment I plugged CA Vega (og) into my TT2, set it to a comfortable volume, then switched to Elite. Same 101 dB/mW sensitivity, but 32 Ohms for Elite vs 16 for Vega. And it took 3 dB increase in volume on the TT2 to match volume (by ear, so approximate of course), which is exactly what would be expected given the doubling of the power requirement caused by doubled impedance.

Obviously not a rigorous effort, but enough to convince me that 2*2 does equal 4

Maybe you’re thinking is that ‘more power is needed to push bigger/more transducers’ or ‘different driver types have different power requirements’. But those factors are ‘baked into’ the sensitivity specification.

 

[RobbieBear]

I can strongly suggest the Cayin C9 if you already have a decent DAP. It works beautifully with the Elite and (from people I’ve spoken to) works really well with ZMF headphones too.

Hi, thanks. I don't have a DAP and have been using my phone as far as portable goes. Just looked and the Cayin is just an amp. Don't fancy having to buy a player as well unless advantages over plugging my phone into a decent DAC/amp is significant.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Yes, that’s what the math says.

Sensitivity is expressed as dB/mW (or per watt for speakers). So if the sensitivity is the same, then the power needed to create some SPL would also be the the same by definition.

Current is a different story — once you calculate the power required for a given SPL, the transducer’s impedance determines the current needed to deliver that amount of power into that impedance. Obviously, lower impedance means more current is needed to achieve the same power output.

As an experiment I plugged CA Vega (og) into my TT2, set it to a comfortable volume, then switched to Elite. Same 101 dB/mW sensitivity, but 32 Ohms for Elite vs 16 for Vega. And it took 3 dB increase in volume on the TT2 to match volume (by ear, so approximate of course), which is exactly what would be expected given the doubling of the power requirement caused by doubled impedance.

Obviously not a rigorous effort, but enough to convince me that 2*2 does equal 4

Maybe you’re thinking is that ‘more power is needed to push bigger/more transducers’ or ‘different driver types have different power requirements’. But those factors are ‘baked into’ the sensitivity specification.

I think this only happen at certain frequency, many sensitivity test use 1kHz if I'm not mistaken. At 1kHz sound, your opinion may correct, but how about at other frequencies? Dynamic driver is famous for its inconsistent impedance, Beyerdynamic T1 with 600 ohm impedance has increase of impedance lot in bass area (become around 900 ohm if I remember correctly). The power calculation for each frequency may not linear.

 

[RobbieBear]

Woohoo! European Champions. What a game!
Sorry, just excited!

 

[aseedsea]

Woohoo! European Champions. What a game!
Sorry, just excited!

I’m assuming you listened to the game through your Elites. I don’t know the match you are speaking of. But, I will share in your excitement… if only briefly. Cheers!

 

[RobbieBear]

I’m assuming you listened to the game through your Elites. I don’t know the match you are speaking of. But, I will share in your excitement… if only briefly. Cheers!

Sadly, I didn't as others were watching!
England just beat Germany in the final of the European Championships.

A great day! Just received a Chord Epic digital to go between streamer and DAC/amp, and expecting my Elites to be joined by a pair of Verite Closed on Tuesday. Feels like Christmas!