Meze Audio 109 Pro
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donpablo
100+ Head-Fier
Nice review but I have one comment. You have written:
"The 660 S has more sub-bass presence in its sound, whilst the Meze offering keeps its bass cleaner with better pace and recovery."
Here is Meze 109 Pro measurment from @Resolve review:
Here is HD660S measurment (from Superbestaudiofriends):
And HD660S distortions measurments:
Its clearly visible that HD660s have huge roll of in subbas (60hz down to 20hz, this is subbass region).
What you may here and subjectively receive as better subbas presence is just distortion in Sennheiser's subbas region which is preeeeety huge.
660s have boosted mid bass, this + huge distortions from subbas region may create such impression of 'better' noticable subbas.
RCracer777
100+ Head-Fier
The thing that makes it even harder in the case of the Sundara is that people always keep forgetting that the Sundara was a €500 headphone when it was introduced in 2018 and only dropped down to $350 around april 2020. So when people say to me that the Sundara sounds like a €500 headphone I always reply "That's because it is a €500 headphone, or at least it used to be."
The prices of headphones generally drop over time so when someone is stating the [insert random headphone/IEM here] sounds like a €€€ headphone/IEM at only €€ it sounds impressive but when you look up the original msrp to compare it, lo and behold it was also €€€ when is was introduced a few years ago.
For instance I really like my HD660s but I'll always compare it at the original msrp of €500 and not at the current price of €390
ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
Yeah price changes on headphones are weird sometimes.
Look at the LCD-X or Arya. They were 1800,- at some point and now you can easily get them brand new for 2 thirds of that.
On the other Hand, flagships only increase in price because of the "pricier = better" mentality.
donpablo
100+ Head-Fier
Soon $10k flagship will be standard price and all we with $500-$1000 headphones will be like clochards.
Nostoi
Headphoneus Supremus
Live impressions:
1. Outstanding comfort and build. If you like the 99 comfort, you'll love these. Build/aesthetics - quite splendid. Tasteful and refined.
2. The semi-exposed driver. If you're bald, then you probably have no need to worry about the semi-exposed driver. Since I'm as hairy and lustrous as Warren Beatty in "Shampoo," I would expect a stray hair or two to possibly slip through. We'll see. I'm not too concerned, but a mesh would indeed be reassuring.
3. Initial impressions of sound: nice! They abound in clarity, with excellent imaging and layering; staging is impressively wide but also well controlled. Overall timbre: textured bass with excellent extension, flat but detailed mids, sparkly highs *thankfully* free of the metallic tinge on the Liric. Still, these certainly have a lot energy in the upper mids. I fiddled around with a few cables. Meze's silver cable adds too much energy here, Forza's Claire Hybrid is a very nice balance, indeed, however. I'd recommend either Meze's copper cable or another hybrid. I have an Arctic Cables Ingens on the way (8 wire hybrid) which I expect will strike a good balance.
4. Other points - a few remarks on being good for metal; yes, I agree. Great cans for true metal (cc @Mhog55) But also, I can see these being really excellent all-rounders and easily a go-to recommendation for general use. In terms of sources, they don't seem terribly picky to me. Sound truly excellent on Mojo 2, better on Hugo 2, and even better when paired with an external/desktop amp - more definition, clarity, more resolving. But I can see taking these and Mojo 2 to couch/hotel and being more than happy. Curious to see how they'll pair with Hiby RS2.
5. vs. Meze 99. They retain a broad house sound without any of the muddiness of the 99. However, I have to say as an aside - Meze's silver cable *totally* eliminates the mid-bass bloat on the 99. Coupled with Dekoni sheepskin pads, they're by far the best closed-back under 1000. The 99 do not have the technical chops of the 109, but together they form a nice pairing.
In sum, ladies and gents - the hype is real: recommended!
1. Outstanding comfort and build. If you like the 99 comfort, you'll love these. Build/aesthetics - quite splendid. Tasteful and refined.
2. The semi-exposed driver. If you're bald, then you probably have no need to worry about the semi-exposed driver. Since I'm as hairy and lustrous as Warren Beatty in "Shampoo," I would expect a stray hair or two to possibly slip through. We'll see. I'm not too concerned, but a mesh would indeed be reassuring.
3. Initial impressions of sound: nice! They abound in clarity, with excellent imaging and layering; staging is impressively wide but also well controlled. Overall timbre: textured bass with excellent extension, flat but detailed mids, sparkly highs *thankfully* free of the metallic tinge on the Liric. Still, these certainly have a lot energy in the upper mids. I fiddled around with a few cables. Meze's silver cable adds too much energy here, Forza's Claire Hybrid is a very nice balance, indeed, however. I'd recommend either Meze's copper cable or another hybrid. I have an Arctic Cables Ingens on the way (8 wire hybrid) which I expect will strike a good balance.
4. Other points - a few remarks on being good for metal; yes, I agree. Great cans for true metal (cc @Mhog55) But also, I can see these being really excellent all-rounders and easily a go-to recommendation for general use. In terms of sources, they don't seem terribly picky to me. Sound truly excellent on Mojo 2, better on Hugo 2, and even better when paired with an external/desktop amp - more definition, clarity, more resolving. But I can see taking these and Mojo 2 to couch/hotel and being more than happy. Curious to see how they'll pair with Hiby RS2.
5. vs. Meze 99. They retain a broad house sound without any of the muddiness of the 99. However, I have to say as an aside - Meze's silver cable *totally* eliminates the mid-bass bloat on the 99. Coupled with Dekoni sheepskin pads, they're by far the best closed-back under 1000. The 99 do not have the technical chops of the 109, but together they form a nice pairing.
In sum, ladies and gents - the hype is real: recommended!
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Sometimes, when you have a market this small and fierce competitors, you just position your product in the market without considering the actual production cost and its profit margin. You just go over it.
I think meze (and many others) does this kind of positioning, as they choose to not actually worry much about value. Maybe they could position the 109 Pro at 500$, and the liric at 1500$. How much more units do you think they would sell? To me, not much.
HifiMan does the opposite, as they always go for the best possible value in SQ vs cost (and that's why they have a lot of models and price changes going on).
Nostoi
Headphoneus Supremus
On the topic of 109's value, they do not rival my Kennerton Thror but nor should they. At the same time, the current price for the 109 is indeed very fair. They certainly outclass/outperform the Meze Liric, IMO. So either one is underpriced or one is overpriced....
ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
Do they?
7k Susvara because best sound quality for cost?
Imo Hifiman does Generally the same, but at a larger scale since they started earlier.
Big headphones to create Prestige and a Name, mass produced low cost offerings to earn the money.
100% agreed. I much prefer the technical performance of the Liric's over any other closed back I've listened to in the $1,009-$3,000 range, including the Stellia.
You can't take a single product and make it as a paradigm of a whole line-up.
Most of hifiman's offering is pretty competitive in SQ vs price, compared to the competitors.
I also don't buy your quote, since most of the time margins on mass products are generally so low it barely makes a profit. Unless you are Apple, of course.
For me the Liric was soundwise the biggest disapointment in recent years. I have sold them very quickly. But the premium finish and comfort were top. As always by Meze
C_Lindbergh
Headphoneus Supremus
Ive genuinely forgotten that I'm wearing the 109s...
Nostoi
Headphoneus Supremus
Comfort really is 100%. The pads...blissful.Ive genuinely forgotten that I'm wearing the 109s...
Would you say the 109 has a similar sound tuning to the Advar?
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