[meomap]

We are all entitled to our opinion and clearly you have yours

And you are ok with that VC problem? From a dealer standpoint?

 

[ttocs]

I personally love this feature and obviously there are people who don’t. I was going through a large number of preamps with the MHA200 yesterday and they all showed different characteristics. If anyone wants a little further insight on how to use this feature send me a DM and I’m happy to explain the many choices it provides the user.

I'm assuming the feature you are mentioning is the "Unity Gain" detent on the knob? If this is the case, the majority of traditional volume controls can be placed at a unity gain level for proper gain structure if you are using a preamp.

Since it is a pretty far departure from the majority of the competitive products on the market I believe it should be more clearly stated by McIntosh that it does not function like you would expect from a "Volume" control.

A label of Gain would have made this more obvious. Stating that it is to be used with a preamp (bringing the price point to a different level) would also be appropriate.

If it had been marketed like a McIntosh speaker amp for headphones.... I may have thought more about it.

Being caught off guard by this "feature" if probably my biggest issue.

 

[Nostoi]

like I said, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion just as a manufacturer is entitled to provide features they think are useful. McIntosh has tightened the tiny movement in the gain control and so far based on their design intention it appears to be the only flaw I can find.

As a dealer/sponser, the best response you could have provided throughout this thread would be something to the effect of "thanks for the feedback, I'll relay it to McIntosh."

But instead you've either downplayed or evaded the issue (indeed disingenuously claiming you were unaware of the issue), before responding in a consistently passive aggressive way.

It doesn't inspire confidence and certainly from someone like me who has been in the fence about buying the amp, it doesn't inspire sales.

 

[TSAVJason]

Well I can only look at it from the customer perspective.
Some companies offer their products at similar price around the world.
A Meze Empyrean for instance costs 4000$ in the US and 4000€ over here.
A DCA Stealth costs 4000$ in the US and 4100€ over here.

And some really don't
The McIntosh MHA200 costs 2500$ in the US and 3000€ over here.
Cayin is even worse the Ha-6a costs 2500$ in the US and 3600€ over here.

For me as customer it's impossible to tell if the manufacturers to blame or the distributor.
It does leave a Bad taste though.

I totally understand. It is unfortunate and confusing

 

[Crowbar44]

Spot on with your comment. Using it as a straight amp is the route to nirvana with this beast.
Glad you didn't waste any good beans. Bad for the sinuses as well...

For someone integrating the MHA200 into an existing system with a pre-amp, I agree the VC issues are a non-issue as you will leave it at unity.

For the average desktop user whose path looks like this:

Computer>>DAC>>MHA200>>Headphones, it unfortunately is an issue...

I've completely fixed this issue by using the Microsoft Surface Dial Bluetooth knob. I like this method MORE that using the knob on the MHA200 (additional plus - no fingerprints!).

I'm still incredibly happy with the sound of this amp, and have no regrets having purchased it whatsoever.

McIntosh was perhaps blinded by the fact that the vast majority of their clients run all McIntosh systems, and the design of the MHA200 prioritizes integration with a McIntosh pre-amp. However, the design is just a bit of a miss for the "typical" headphone customer who is going to rely on the amp itself for volume control.

I think Jason's comment that the VC on the MHA200 is more of a "gain control" knob than a traditional volume pot or stepped attenuator is a hint that there's something different about the VC on the MHA200 than other HP amps. For all I know, it might result in better sound - who knows.

 

[TSAVJason]

I'm assuming the feature you are mentioning is the "Unity Gain" detent on the knob? If this is the case, the majority of traditional volume controls can be placed at a unity gain level for proper gain structure if you are using a preamp.

Since it is a pretty far departure from the majority of the competitive products on the market I believe it should be more clearly stated by McIntosh that it does not function like you would expect from a "Volume" control.

A label of Gain would have made this more obvious. Stating that it is to be used with a preamp (bringing the price point to a different level) would also be appropriate.

If it had been marketed like a McIntosh speaker amp for headphones.... I may have thought more about it.

Being caught off guard by this "feature" if probably my biggest issue.

I’m not trying to be argumentative but where is it being marketed as a speaker amp?

 

[TSAVJason]

For someone integrating the MHA200 into an existing system with a pre-amp, I agree the VC issues are a non-issue as you will leave it at unity.

For the average desktop user whose path looks like this:

Computer>>DAC>>MHA200>>Headphones, it unfortunately is an issue...

I've completely fixed this issue by using the Microsoft Surface Dial Bluetooth knob. I like this method MORE that using the knob on the MHA200 (additional plus - no fingerprints!).

I'm still incredibly happy with the sound of this amp, and have no regrets having purchased it whatsoever.

McIntosh was perhaps blinded by the fact that the vast majority of their clients run all McIntosh systems, and the design of the MHA200 prioritizes integration with a McIntosh pre-amp. However, the design is just a bit of a miss for the "typical" headphone customer who is going to rely on the amp itself for volume control.

I think Jason's comment that the VC on the MHA200 is more of a "gain control" knob that a tradition volume pot or stepped attenuator is a hint that there's something different about the VC on the MHA200 than other HP amps. For all I know, it might result in better sound - who knows.

the detent is not an exact placement of the control in all cases. Yesterday I tried a few preamps where I adjusted slightly above the detent and was able very nicely drive hard to drive headphones that typically require a lot more grunt

 

[Crowbar44]

As a dealer/sponser, the best response you could have provided throughout this thread would be something to the effect of "thanks for the feedback, I'll relay it to McIntosh."

But instead you've either downplayed or evaded the issue (indeed disingenuously claiming you were unaware of the issue), before responding in a consistently passive aggressive way.

It doesn't inspire confidence and certainly from someone like me who has been in the fence about buying the amp, it doesn't inspire sales.

I don't think the above comment is fair...IMHO Jason has been nothing but transparent and fair in all his replies to the issues with the MHA200 posted here. He's acknowledged the shortcomings very clearly in the past, and frankly he's directly communicated these issues to McIntosh and even set up a video call so user could directly speak to McIntosh representatives.

Passive aggressive? He's been nothing of the sort...

 

[TSAVJason]

As a dealer/sponser, the best response you could have provided throughout this thread would be something to the effect of "thanks for the feedback, I'll relay it to McIntosh."

But instead you've either downplayed or evaded the issue (indeed disingenuously claiming you were unaware of the issue), before responding in a consistently passive aggressive way.

It doesn't inspire confidence and certainly from someone like me who has been in the fence about buying the amp, it doesn't inspire sales.

I’m certainly not a politician, I’m just an engineer and owner of TSAV with my brother but you can trust I do relay comments to the CEO and design team. Don’t presume for a minute I don’t understand your be comments but like I’ve said, for them it’s a feature and for others it’s a flaw. I happen to like the feature but that doesn’t mean I think everyone will.

 

[TSAVJason]

As a dealer/sponser, the best response you could have provided throughout this thread would be something to the effect of "thanks for the feedback, I'll relay it to McIntosh."

But instead you've either downplayed or evaded the issue (indeed disingenuously claiming you were unaware of the issue), before responding in a consistently passive aggressive way.

It doesn't inspire confidence and certainly from someone like me who has been in the fence about buying the amp, it doesn't inspire sales.

I’m certainly not a politician, I’m just an engineer and owner of TSAV with my brother but you can trust I do relay comments to the CEO and design team. Don’t presume for a minute I don’t understand your be comments but like I’ve said, for them it’s a feature and for others it’s a flaw. I happen to like the feature but that doesn’t mean I think everyone will.

FYI, sales on the MHA200 have been insane. So I guess it’s a personal preference thing, isn’t it?

 

[TSAVJason]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to post that twice. I must have a fat thumb today.

 

[Nostoi]

I don't think the above comment is fair...IMHO Jason has been nothing but transparent and fair in all his replies to the issues with the MHA200 posted here. He's acknowledged the shortcomings very clearly in the past, and frankly he's directly communicated these issues to McIntosh and even set up a video call so user could directly speak to McIntosh representatives.

Passive aggressive? He's been nothing of the sort...

For me, saying that "We are all entitled to our opinion and clearly you have yours" is passive aggressive.

I'm not here to throw disparaging remarks around but I have to note that early on in this thread, he also accused me of spreading "fake news" when I mentioned the EU release date for the amp, which I found a bit unsavoury.

And then after letting him know about the volume issue in June, he replied in an oddly snarky way that I also thought was frankly weird - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-mcintosh-mha200-headphone-amp.954194/page-29#post-16427621

Maybe it's just an unfortunate disposition.

 

[TSAVJason]

And you are ok with that VC problem? From a dealer standpoint?

From a user or dealer standpoint I see their design concept very easily. Do I understand some people won’t like the feature? Yes. But as I typically do I relay all these concerns to the manufacture just as I did when Focal had Utopias and other models failing like crazy and let them know they needed to address the issues and provided opinion on how to address the failures. I am very much a consumer advocate more than I am a brand promoter. I do use McIntosh and ARC at home, I still use my Utopias also but I did have to get my personal set repaired and I am definitely not a loud listener.

 

[TSAVJason]

For me, saying that "We are all entitled to our opinion and clearly you have yours" is passive aggressive.

I'm not here to throw disparaging remarks around but I have to note that early on in this thread, he also accused me of spreading "fake news" when I mentioned the EU release date for the amp, which I found a bit unsavoury.

And then after letting him know about the volume issue in June, he replied in an oddly snarky way that I also thought was frankly weird - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-mcintosh-mha200-headphone-amp.954194/page-29#post-16427621

Maybe it's just an unfortunate disposition.

Bro! It simply means I respect your opinion. Yes, maybe you’re not fond that I do speak my mind and try to help with information wherever possible. You wouldn’t be the first to think as you do but I respect that as well

 

[ttocs]

I’m not trying to be argumentative but where is it being marketed as a speaker amp?

I was trying to produce an example of marketing that would have made me more aware before purchase that it was not a standard desktop headphone amp. Not trying to say that they had marketed it that way. Sorry about the confusion.