[ABQ2]

Has anyone paired up the MHA200 with the Focal Utopia 2022 cans? Any impressions?

I have the original Utopias and the MHA200. To die for.

 

[vo_obgyn]

I have the original Utopias and the MHA200. To die for.

Thanks for your reply. With your original Utopias, have you tried tube swapping the MHA200, I'm wondering?

 

[ABQ2]

Thanks for your reply. With your original Utopias, have you tried tube swapping the MHA200, I'm wondering?

I replaced the 12AT7's with Mallard's.

 

[u2u2]

I replaced the 12AT7's with Mallard's.

Myself, I avoided the ducks and left them in the pond... I went with Mullard 6201. Rather nice with the OG Utopia
Autocorrect is a bear.

 

[vo_obgyn]

Myself, I avoided the ducks and left them in the pond... I went with Mullard 6201. Rather nice with the OG Utopia
Autocorrect is a bear.

LOL Thanks. I have heard that the Mullard ECC81/12AT7/CV4024 tubes sound good on the MHA200 as well. The OG Utopias sound great with tube amplification, I've heard.

 

[jonathan c]

I replaced the 12AT7's with Mallard's.

Do those tubes have webbed getters?

 

[Strat1117]

LOL Thanks. I have heard that the Mullard ECC81/12AT7/CV4024 tubes sound good on the MHA200 as well. The OG Utopias sound great with tube amplification, I've heard.

Mullards are definitely a good choice for the 12at7s. All of the 12bh7s I had on the house turned out to be too noisy for this application, so I haven’t been able to experiment with those yet, and I may never get to.

[Begin Rant]
After my dealer, who agreed that the wonky volume control set up was inexplicable, couldn’t get a good explanation from McIntosh, I decided to call them myself. What a mistake!

I spoke to a guy named “Chuck”, their Customer Service representative. The whole experience was very unpleasant, and not what one would expect from a company with a reputation for excellence like McIntosh. The bottom line is that ‘Chuck’ either didn't understand my question or had his own agenda and deliberately insisted on answering a different question than what I asked (as if he thought the problem was the overall amount of gain, as opposed to the unnecessarily limited usable range of the volume control), then he told me to changing the gain (he obviously meant the impedance), which, of course, did nothing to change the problem except move the small usable range a few degrees to the left or right (without increasing its coverage) and then (my favorite) he claimed that the problem was my 110 0hm Audeze LCD-3 headphones were to blame because (he said) “they require 1,000 times the normal amount of power”, and notwithstanding that it's exactly the same situation with my 300 ohm Sennheisers (HD 600 and HD650), and my 64 ohm Grados (RS-1e).

Toward the end of the conversation, because I was not merely accepting his 'advice' which was not only clearly wrong, but wasn’t even related to the actual issue I was asking about, he told me, in words or substance, that I "should just return the unit - that [he's] not making [me] keep it." Very childish behavior indeed for someone who's supposed to be the Customer Service rep for one of the world's most prestigious audio brands. Perhaps he's used to people who just take his word for things, but I've been in this hobby for 50 years, all-tube analog for most of it, and I couldn't just accept his manifestly incorrect and irrelevant dogma as an answer to a question which they HAVE to have been asked 100 times. It was clear that ‘Chuck’ had no personal knowledge of anything he was talking about and he was just reading from a script and/or repeating what someone else had told him - or at least his faulty understanding thereof. Anyway, I never even got to ask him why they chose a C7 connector instead of a full size C14 iem (there’s plenty of real estate back there), but it’s clear that, notwithstanding the great sound, McIntosh completely missed the boat on the user interface with this particular amp and, for reasons we may never know, they are refusing to take ownership of their mistake and are just deflecting or denying (although even ‘Chuck’ admitted the volume control was a ‘little goofy’ - his words, not mine).

All of this is a shame because it’s really a nice sounding amp, but for this kind of money, I expect ‘the Best’, not a volume control and an ac receptacle that wouldn’t be welcome on an $89 unit, no less a $2500 one (I could live with the C7 plug if I had to - plug it in once with an adaptor and forget about it, but you have to interact with that volume knob every day and the pot on my old Creek OBH-11 was nicer than the one on the Mc). I’m seriously considering returning mine and going back to the drawing board before my dealer’s generous trial period runs out. I don’t want to - I really like the way it sounds which, of course, is the most important thing - but some of this stuff is just plain bizarre.

Shame on McIntosh - it appears they are no longer the audiophile company they once used to be, and, based on today’s experience, their ‘customer care’ is an abomination.

Who needs it? [/End Rant]

Truth is, I really DO like the way this unit sounds with all of my headphones - especially the Audeze LCD-3 - and I will probably keep it, wonky volume control and midwit CS rep notwithstanding.

 

[Kimiifrit]

Anyone has experience with T+A Solitaire P and TH900MK2 on MHA200? Curious to know, thanks.

 

[Strat1117]

Isn't there anybody out there who is interested in talking about this little gem of an amp, warts and all?

Perhaps it just works great and there's nothing much to discuss? I suppose that's possible, and I suppose that is one of the things I like best about it. As a recovering tubeaholic, the MHA200 allows me to have a tube amp which, as far as tube amps go, is almost as much of a brick (I mean that in a good way) as a tube amp can be, without getting caught up in the minutae of which $400 rectifier works with which heretofore virtually unknown power tube (not that there is ANYTHING inherently bad about that, but I suffer from Post Tube Stress Disorder, and swore off tubes altogether about 5 years ago when I sold my VTL monoblocks and 24k gold plated Audible Illusions M3A and replaced my BAT VK-D5 (diy SE upgrade for a naim cd player and a Plinius Hautonga SS Class A biased integrated amp, so the less dithering with unfamiliar tubes (the 12at7/ecc81 and the 12 bh7 tubes are both well know to me from the VTL amps), the better. Or maybe people around here just don't dig McIntosh, and that's ok too, but there must be someone who does and wants to talk about it. We can't let the Woo Audio guys have all the fun, can we?

Can we?

 

[TSAVJason]

Yes and no. I’ve been a tube guy for 30+ years (having owned multiple VTL, ARC, AI and Prima Luna, and probably a couple of others I can’t think of right now, not to mention a variety of Marshall and Fender tubed guitar amps. I’ve also had a lot of experience with the MC275 - although I haven’t owned one, my brother does.

Defend it all you like, but it is simply incorrect to label a gain control as volume, and anyone who is flummoxed by this apparently vestigial control is absolutely right to be upset about that totally unnecessary design choice, whether or not you agree with the vocabulary they use to describe their unhappiness. The following is directly from McIntosh’s website regarding the MHA200:

“The VOLUME knob allows the MHA200 to be connected directly to music sources that only have a fixed volume output without needing a preamplifier for volume control.”

Doesn’t indicate that the VOLIME control is anything out of the ordinary, does it? If this was indeed a deliberate ‘design choice’, then it was a dumb one - it serves no purpose other than to frustrate those who want to use the MHA200 in the normal way. I currently use a $6,000 integrated amp, but I also use speakers, so using the pre out means the speakers will also be on when using the preamp’s volume control, and using the line out, as I have been for headphone amps for 25 years, well, we’re back to the same issue. Not everyone has a headphone only system, and not everyone wants to buy a separate preamp as a volume control for a $2,500 headphone amp that could easily have had one with a usable taper from the word go, without affecting the unity gain ‘design choice’. A deliberate design choice that causes an apparently serious convenience issue for a large percentage of end users is, even in its best light, foolish. The only thing deliberate about it would appear to be putting off long time and new customers. How is that not a perfect example of flawed thinking?? Maybe there was a fix or an answer later in the thread - I got bored reading the same newb tube questions and the same complaints about the volume control over and over. Even @TSAVJason, who mostly seems to be knowledgeable about the product (but maybe not about tube rolling*), appears to be ducking giving a straight answer on this particular obvious design mistake. Maybe all that’s needed is to replace the 12at7’s with 12ax7’s for more gain in the front section. But no volume change before 10 o’clock on the volume control is manifestly absurd, intentional or not. Intent does not make a patently bad design choice into a good one, so please stop defending it as if it has ANY merit whatsoever. Gain controls on power amps are mostly an anachronism these days - I’ve only encountered them on my old ARC D-115 mk II, and the MC275. The people who have no problem as the volume control situation on the MHA200 stands still would have had no problem if the volume control were recalibrated. It appears there is no benefit to anyone from the present set up. A design choice implies they chose one benefit over another. That appears not to be the case here, thus, a flaw not a choice.

Mine isn’t even arriving for another day or two and I’m already ready to send it back after reading the first half of this thread. I’m way too old for this crap.

*While I am normally a big proponent of ‘whatever floats your boat’, I can’t abide misinformation. It is simply not possible that you found the Mc labeled current JJ tubes mellower with a better soundstage than NOS Mullard CV4024 or 6201, unless you were referring to the current production Russian tubes labeled Mullard, in which case you should have made that clear, because those are not the Mullards people should be rolling into this amp. Real NOS Mullards are known far and wide in both guitar and audio circles as the mellow, sweet choice. Your description of them as more aggressive with a smaller soundstage simply cannot be reconciled with that reality. Similarly, as to the guys who had problems with their plates going cherry on the 12bh7, it could well be a flaw in the oem Mc tube, which uses a 12at7 size envelope for a tube that was designed for much taller glass and, perforce, a much larger plate. I am confident that changing to the taller tube is what solved the problem (notwithstanding the owners complaint that it was ‘butt ugly’; a truly sophisticated tube user.). Take a look at a 1950’s Sylvania Gold Label or an RCA black plate 12bh7 - both tall with long plates, as the tube was designed. That’s why the replacement eh tubes were taller and, I’d wager, that’s why they solved the cherry red plate issue.

Finally, someone suggested that tube dampers were snake oil because manufacturers don’t use them. That is false information and bad advice. ARC, for just one example, has been using dampers on their small tubes for 20+ years, and I’m sure others are too. Some tubes are more responsive to damping than others, and too much damping will make your amp sound dead, but damping often works well and its effects are obvious and repeatable. In fact, you can ‘tune’ the dampers by moving them up and down the tube as you listen for the seeet spot. I prefer herbies dampers to the rubber band type used by arc, and I usually use them only on input tubes - never on power tubes - and not on every small tube or even on every piece of equipment.

YMMV, just my $.03, etc., ad nauseum.

we all have our opinions and obviously my opinion is different than yours

 

[TSAVJason]

Has anyone paired up the MHA200 with the Focal Utopia 2022 cans? Any impressions?

In 2 weeks on our YouTube channel you’ll see a detailed review of that combo if that helps you

 

[Strat1117]

we all have our opinions and obviously my opinion is different than yours

Not sure which part of that particular rant you’re referring to, but I certainly agree that we all hear differently, so if you’re referring to the part about the Mullards, I’ll retract everything I said except that: 1. I hear them very differently than what you described and 2. Whatever floats your boat is good by me.

I’d be more interested in hearing what you think of ‘Chuck’ at McIntosh’s statement to me that the reason why the range of adjustment on the volume control is so limited is either because I need to change gain (resistance) settings and/or that “Audeze headphones require 1,000 times more power than average headphones.” I’m not making it up; that’s really what he said. Once I made it clear that I would not just listen to him unquestioningly while he read from a script, he became quite flummoxed by the entire conversation, for whatever reason.

Anyway, I’m just glad to see a little action in this thread - it’s fairly moribund. Even though you’re responding to something I wrote almost two weeks and multiple posts ago, at least it’s some discourse. At the end of the day, I think it’s a great little amp (admittedly with a couple of little foibles, most notably the usable range of that volume control), but I’d like to see more interest in it and discussion about it, so I’m purposefully putting up loud, obnoxious, controversial posts in a last ditch attempt to get the conversation going.

 

[TSAVJason]

Not sure which part of that particular rant you’re referring to, but I certainly agree that we all hear differently, so if you’re referring to the part about the Mullards, I’ll retract everything I said except that: 1. I hear them very differently than what you described and 2. Whatever floats your boat is good by me.

I’d be more interested in hearing what you think of ‘Chuck’ at McIntosh’s statement to me that the reason why the range of adjustment on the volume control is so limited is either because I need to change gain (resistance) settings and/or that “Audeze headphones require 1,000 times more power than average headphones.” I’m not making it up; that’s really what he said. Once I made it clear that I would not just listen to him unquestioningly while he read from a script, he became quite flummoxed by the entire conversation, for whatever reason.

Anyway, I’m just glad to see a little action in this thread - it’s fairly moribund. Even though you’re responding to something I wrote almost two weeks and multiple posts ago, at least it’s some discourse. At the end of the day, I think it’s a great little amp (admittedly with a couple of little foibles, most notably the usable range of that volume control), but I’d like to see more interest in it and discussion about it, so I’m purposefully putting up loud, obnoxious, controversial posts in a last ditch attempt to get the conversation going.

Chuck is awesome! However the headphone space is not his thing. He never reads from a script. He does read tech reports to assist customers in issues or connectivity but that’s it. FYI, all my information comes from McIntosh’s CEO as we are long time friends and electronic engineers

 

[TSAVJason]

Hi everyone. Time question.

I've been listening to my MHA200, love it. Currently got the stock tubes in, but when i bought it I got some Mullards and some Electro Harmonix... Wondering whether I keep going with stock or try tube rolling. I'm sure I read someone in here say it takes 200 hours for it to really sing, and I'm not there with the stock yet, and I'm not unhappy with the stock I just... wonder. Any advice please?

200 hours is a tad extreme. It shouldn’t require more than 20-30 hours. You may find what others have found, that the MHA200 doesn’t really lend itself to tube rolling much. At least I haven’t found any tubes that improve on the OE sound

 

[Strat1117]

Chuck is awesome! However the headphone space is not his thing. He never reads from a script. He does read tech reports to assist customers in issues or connectivity but that’s it. FYI, all my information comes from McIntosh’s CEO as we are long time friends and electronic engineers

My conversation with him started out nicely enough, and I'm sure he's a very nice guy, but what I mean by "reading from a script" is that he told me he was quoting what the designer told him, and he couldn't or wouldn't get that my question had to do with the range of adjustment, as opposed to the overall level of volume that I was getting. He got upset that I wouldn't just accept what he said as having answered my question when clearly it hadn't (and the thing about Audeze headphones requiring 1,000 times the normal amount of power was just bizarre). Clearly, the headphone space is NOT his thing and he was out of his depth. I would have been much happier if he just put me through to someone who knew the product and the ancillaries with which it is likely to be used.