Got you! Thanks for the insight
So do you think that adding the C8 Preamp to the chain won't yield any sound improvements?
McIntosh MHA200 Impressions
- Thread starter warrenpchi
- Start date
So do you think that adding the C8 Preamp to the chain won't yield any sound improvements?
My MHA200 is paired with a C8/DA2. Awesome. Don't have ME though. Assorted Focal, Sony, Sennheiser. I have posted earlier in this thread...
Yes and no. I’ve been a tube guy for 30+ years (having owned multiple VTL, ARC, AI and Prima Luna, and probably a couple of others I can’t think of right now, not to mention a variety of Marshall and Fender tubed guitar amps. I’ve also had a lot of experience with the MC275 - although I haven’t owned one, my brother does.
Defend it all you like, but it is simply incorrect to label a gain control as volume, and anyone who is flummoxed by this apparently vestigial control is absolutely right to be upset about that totally unnecessary design choice, whether or not you agree with the vocabulary they use to describe their unhappiness. The following is directly from McIntosh’s website regarding the MHA200:
“The VOLUME knob allows the MHA200 to be connected directly to music sources that only have a fixed volume output without needing a preamplifier for volume control.”
Doesn’t indicate that the VOLIME control is anything out of the ordinary, does it? If this was indeed a deliberate ‘design choice’, then it was a dumb one - it serves no purpose other than to frustrate those who want to use the MHA200 in the normal way. I currently use a $6,000 integrated amp, but I also use speakers, so using the pre out means the speakers will also be on when using the preamp’s volume control, and using the line out, as I have been for headphone amps for 25 years, well, we’re back to the same issue. Not everyone has a headphone only system, and not everyone wants to buy a separate preamp as a volume control for a $2,500 headphone amp that could easily have had one with a usable taper from the word go, without affecting the unity gain ‘design choice’. A deliberate design choice that causes an apparently serious convenience issue for a large percentage of end users is, even in its best light, foolish. The only thing deliberate about it would appear to be putting off long time and new customers. How is that not a perfect example of flawed thinking?? Maybe there was a fix or an answer later in the thread - I got bored reading the same newb tube questions and the same complaints about the volume control over and over. Even @TSAVJason, who mostly seems to be knowledgeable about the product (but maybe not about tube rolling*), appears to be ducking giving a straight answer on this particular obvious design mistake. Maybe all that’s needed is to replace the 12at7’s with 12ax7’s for more gain in the front section. But no volume change before 10 o’clock on the volume control is manifestly absurd, intentional or not. Intent does not make a patently bad design choice into a good one, so please stop defending it as if it has ANY merit whatsoever. Gain controls on power amps are mostly an anachronism these days - I’ve only encountered them on my old ARC D-115 mk II, and the MC275. The people who have no problem as the volume control situation on the MHA200 stands still would have had no problem if the volume control were recalibrated. It appears there is no benefit to anyone from the present set up. A design choice implies they chose one benefit over another. That appears not to be the case here, thus, a flaw not a choice.
Mine isn’t even arriving for another day or two and I’m already ready to send it back after reading the first half of this thread. I’m way too old for this crap.
*While I am normally a big proponent of ‘whatever floats your boat’, I can’t abide misinformation. It is simply not possible that you found the Mc labeled current JJ tubes mellower with a better soundstage than NOS Mullard CV4024 or 6201, unless you were referring to the current production Russian tubes labeled Mullard, in which case you should have made that clear, because those are not the Mullards people should be rolling into this amp. Real NOS Mullards are known far and wide in both guitar and audio circles as the mellow, sweet choice. Your description of them as more aggressive with a smaller soundstage simply cannot be reconciled with that reality. Similarly, as to the guys who had problems with their plates going cherry on the 12bh7, it could well be a flaw in the oem Mc tube, which uses a 12at7 size envelope for a tube that was designed for much taller glass and, perforce, a much larger plate. I am confident that changing to the taller tube is what solved the problem (notwithstanding the owners complaint that it was ‘butt ugly’; a truly sophisticated tube user.). Take a look at a 1950’s Sylvania Gold Label or an RCA black plate 12bh7 - both tall with long plates, as the tube was designed. That’s why the replacement eh tubes were taller and, I’d wager, that’s why they solved the cherry red plate issue.
Finally, someone suggested that tube dampers were snake oil because manufacturers don’t use them. That is false information and bad advice. ARC, for just one example, has been using dampers on their small tubes for 20+ years, and I’m sure others are too. Some tubes are more responsive to damping than others, and too much damping will make your amp sound dead, but damping often works well and its effects are obvious and repeatable. In fact, you can ‘tune’ the dampers by moving them up and down the tube as you listen for the seeet spot. I prefer herbies dampers to the rubber band type used by arc, and I usually use them only on input tubes - never on power tubes - and not on every small tube or even on every piece of equipment.
YMMV, just my $.03, etc., ad nauseum.
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As I've never heard the C8 I can not tell anything from experience.Got you! Thanks for the insight
So do you think that adding the C8 Preamp to the chain won't yield any sound improvements?
For the price of C8+MHA200 you can (almost) get something on an even higher level, e.g. Feliks Audio Envy.
What is your current DAC/amp that you are driving the Elite with?
Revelation Sound
Head-Fier
I have a NAD 658 preamp and I believe the headphone output on this unit is ok. I am looking forward in trying out the MHA200 with my Focal Clear MG's and Beyerdynamic 1990's. I have a feeling that the difference will be substantial. This is a very helpful thread with good information. I know you can get cheaper tube headphone amps like the Schitt Lyr, but having a McIntosh MC152 amp, getting a nicely designed Mcintosh headphone amp seems like it would be a great option. I heard you can turn off the standby model, do most owners activate this?
My current set up is a Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC (which I use for my main stereo system as well). Headphone Amp Burson Soloist.
I wanted more of a tube sound, since the burson sounds a bit too analytical.
Revelation Sound
Head-Fier
I really am drawn to this headphone amp, however SPL is a audio company that is very respected in the audio and mastering studios. They have a really good headphone amp that is $1,000 less than the McIntosh. Here is a review of it.
https://www.headphonecheck.com/test/spl-phonitor-se/
When considering what headphone amp to purchase, you always need to consider what else are you using in your chain. My NAD 658 preamp has a DAC that has a slight warm sound. I was not aware of this until I compared it to my friends Matrix DAC which is more detailed and crystal clear. I thought about purchasing the Matrix but I found some recordings with it could sound a little harsh in the top end.
I have some experience with SPL and this solid state headphone amp is very clean, open and detailed. As my Focal Clear MG's don't have an open spacious sound like Sennheisser 800S, I am thinking the SPL might be a better choice, plus its $1,000 cheaper than the McIntosh. If I had the 800's, I think the McIntosh MCA200 would be a better choice. The question is I am not sure if I would like the SPL better with my setup over the McIntosh.
https://www.headphonecheck.com/test/spl-phonitor-se/
When considering what headphone amp to purchase, you always need to consider what else are you using in your chain. My NAD 658 preamp has a DAC that has a slight warm sound. I was not aware of this until I compared it to my friends Matrix DAC which is more detailed and crystal clear. I thought about purchasing the Matrix but I found some recordings with it could sound a little harsh in the top end.
I have some experience with SPL and this solid state headphone amp is very clean, open and detailed. As my Focal Clear MG's don't have an open spacious sound like Sennheisser 800S, I am thinking the SPL might be a better choice, plus its $1,000 cheaper than the McIntosh. If I had the 800's, I think the McIntosh MCA200 would be a better choice. The question is I am not sure if I would like the SPL better with my setup over the McIntosh.
No one can tell you what you will like better other than yourself. You have to try and see, because there is no way to predict synergy, or the lack of synergy. The McIntosh is a wonderful amp, and, except for the wonky volume control which, to me, is more of an annoying quibble than a real 'problem', it is worth what they ask for it. All I can tell you is that I absolutely love it with my Audeze LCD-3 and my modified Sennheiser HD650, but that doesn't mean anything for you and your Focals. SPL amps are great, and many love them, but they are also solid state and, no matter what any one tells you, solid state doesn't sound like tube (nor do all solid state or tube amps sound like each other). SPL also has that crossfeed circuit which some like and others think is a gimmicky - no right or wrong answer, just personal taste. In my personal opinion, the McIntosh has it all over the SPL in terms of form factor, pride of ownership, and general coolness, but that is all so personal and subjective. If you like the McIntosh sound, you won't get it from the SPL - but the reverse is also true. Unless there is a real mismatch (which is unlikely), there is no way to say one is objectively 'better' than the other. Same way we can't tell you whether or not you are going to prefer Ben and Jerry's New York Super Fudge Chunk or Carvel soft vanilla with chocolate sprinkles, we can't tell you which amp and can combo you will prefer. Both are great, but as to which you will prefer - only you can be the judge of that. I'm sure someone here will be willing to tell you which one you should buy - I'm telling you to ignore that person and find a way to hear both with your headphones and your music so you can make up your own mind whether you prefer one over the other, and whether it is worth the difference in price to you.
YMMV, just my $.03, etc., ad nauseum.
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I have a Burson Conductor 3XR, which is not a bad dac/amp, for quite a while now. It could not bind me to the chair/desk, most of my listening continued to happen on my DAPs. Since I have the MHA200, I do sit down regularly, just because of it's tube magic.
Tube rolling time!
Tried RFT, Penta Labs (Sino) and, of course, Mullard 6201. To me, the Mullard 6201 trounce the oem 12at7 in every way: clearer, cleaner, better definition and detail, better extension, more silence between sounds and more palpable space between musicians, even a little louder and more present, all without adding grain or unnatural bite - the whole geschicte. The oem 12at7 (rebranded JJ?) sound soft, flabby and congested by comparison. Unfortunately, the old 12bh7 tubes I have at home, which were fine as driver tubes in my old VTL amps, were all noisy and unusable as power tubes in the Mc, but, since the oem 12bh7A are allowing me to hear all the good stuff the Mullards are doing, then it stands to reason that they are involuted enough that I don’t need to be in a rush to replace them (IMHO, the input/driver tubes form the sound and have more overall effect on what you hear than the power tubes, whose job it is to amplify what they are getting from the input tubes. That doesn’t mean they don’t contribute to the overall sound, just in a different way. IMHO.)
But for the as yet unsatisfactorily explained wonky volume control, this could be a contender for best overall tube amp under $5k. Maybe even more. It’s really a sweet piece of gear.
YMMV, just my $.03, etc., ad nauseum.
Tried RFT, Penta Labs (Sino) and, of course, Mullard 6201. To me, the Mullard 6201 trounce the oem 12at7 in every way: clearer, cleaner, better definition and detail, better extension, more silence between sounds and more palpable space between musicians, even a little louder and more present, all without adding grain or unnatural bite - the whole geschicte. The oem 12at7 (rebranded JJ?) sound soft, flabby and congested by comparison. Unfortunately, the old 12bh7 tubes I have at home, which were fine as driver tubes in my old VTL amps, were all noisy and unusable as power tubes in the Mc, but, since the oem 12bh7A are allowing me to hear all the good stuff the Mullards are doing, then it stands to reason that they are involuted enough that I don’t need to be in a rush to replace them (IMHO, the input/driver tubes form the sound and have more overall effect on what you hear than the power tubes, whose job it is to amplify what they are getting from the input tubes. That doesn’t mean they don’t contribute to the overall sound, just in a different way. IMHO.)
But for the as yet unsatisfactorily explained wonky volume control, this could be a contender for best overall tube amp under $5k. Maybe even more. It’s really a sweet piece of gear.
YMMV, just my $.03, etc., ad nauseum.
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jonathan c
Headphoneus Supremus
I was interested in the MHA200 but that non-IEC power socket quelled that interest. That socket / cable arrangement is more suited to a “wall wart” switching power supply 
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.I don’t disagree, but for me that concern was easily remedied with a C7>C14 adapter. Although I could certainly understand if you were uncomfortable that solution.I was interested in the MHA200 but that non-IEC power socket quelled that interest. That socket / cable arrangement is more suited to a “wall wart” switching power supply
Plus, the non-polarized designed allows you to switch polarity, something to which I am given to understand some ears (not mine) are sensitive.
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Has anyone paired up the MHA200 with the Focal Utopia 2022 cans? Any impressions?
So there is volume control but they prefer not to use it by user???!!!!!
I call it zoo engineering.Huh? You take one sentence out of context from an extremely long, 18 month old post and write something that makes no sense at all.So there is volume control but they prefer not to use it by user???!!!!!
Edit: Never mind. I see you have all of 19 posts and 4 ‘likes’. You are obviously to be ignored. B-bye.
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