Master Clock Talk

[Exocer]

I'll hazard a guess @Exocer might've tried one or two, too...

I have only tried:
1. Ghent Audio bnc
2. Geistnote Evidence Audio Melody
3. DIY Neotech Nevd-2001 w/ gold plated Aeco BNC connectors.

I am staying far away from the bnc cable rabbit hole. The Neotech was substantially better than the Geistnote in my system and this was with a cheap BG7TBL clock of questionable quality.

 

[JaMo]

Alpha Audio's Switch test in English: https://alpha-audio.net/review/a-very-deep-dive-into-network-switches-listening-and-measuring/

 

[DACLadder]

My advice is to buy affordable coax and work your way up. You guys are over thinking the "problem" and trying to hit home runs (score goals) on first try. That has never worked for me as my assumptions rarely relate to reality. As Uptone mentioned for square waves buy cables with the most bandwidth. And use shortest cables possible. (less attenuation). Use common grounded equipment for lowest noise.

After 1 week with the OCK-2 / R7HE/ phones and on to another week of burn in. Sounds good after day 3. Will compare to OCK-1 after the holiday.s (2 weeks burn-in).

Back to the DI20HE / HE7 mk2 / OCK-1 (3.5 weeks) system. Very good tone . I'll get re-conditioned to this system and move the OCK-2 over next week.

But I think the OCK-1 may be perceived as a bit warmer than the OCK-2. Just a hunch. Yet the OCK-1 clock is very liquid and smooth. I can honestly recommend the OCK-1 for the DI20HE/HE7 system. Pretty cheap today for US dollar AliExp sales. About $300usd + tax. Free DHL.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

My advice is to buy affordable coax and, work your way up. You guys are over thinking the "problem" and trying to hit home runs (score goals) on first try.

True Wisdom!

 

[Jake2]

My advice is to buy affordable coax and work your way up. You guys are over thinking the "problem" and trying to hit home runs (score goals) on first try. That has never worked for me as my assumptions rarely relate to reality. As Uptone mentioned for square waves buy cables with the most bandwidth. And use shortest cables possible. (less attenuation). Use common grounded equipment for lowest noise.

After 1 week with the OCK-2 / R7HE/ phones and on to another week of burn in. Sounds good after day 3. Will compare to OCK-1 after the holiday.s (2 weeks burn-in).

Back to the DI20HE / HE7 ml2 / OCK-1 (3.5 weeks) system. Very good tone . I'll get re-conditioned to this system and move the OCK-2 over next week.

But I think the OCK-1 may be perceived as a bit warmer than the OCK-2. Just a hunch. Yet the OCK-1 clock is very liquid and smooth. I can honestly recommend the OCK-1 for the DI20HE/HE7 system. Pretty cheap today for American dollar AliExp sales. About $300usd + tax. Free DHL.

Guilty as charged re overthinking.. though I try with varying levels of success to keep it under control. FWIW the first cable of 3 I bought (the C2) was the best, so perhaps I fluked it on the first swing/shot. If so, thats thanks to the good recommendations of folk on the DI-20 thread especially.

Great stuff re your continuing positive impressions of the OCK-1. Love mine. Look forward to your comparison. I’m now away from my system for a month so living vicariously (hifi wise) through impressions such as these till then…

 

[Jake2]

Alpha Audio's Switch test in English: https://alpha-audio.net/review/a-very-deep-dive-into-network-switches-listening-and-measuring/

Thanks Jamo. Hey so there’s an interesting observation I made when watching/listening on YT after the fact to a few of their switch sound recordings that I'd be interested to know if you noticed and/or agree with. TL;DR - there’s quite a difference between the first session with the LHY (Switch 1) vs the second (Switch 1 revisited), the latter better, which I speculate is due to its OCXO further stabilising over the hours in between.

Naturally enough my interest was largely around how the LHY I have compared to the others. Yes it's YT compressed audio (though AA generally later upload FLACs to their site) listened to via another system (in my case being out of town now it was my Ipad > Douk U2 Pro > Ifi xDSD Gryphon > IE600s. Even so, it came through clearly for the first session the LHY had a more fleshed out and palpable presentation vs other switches, if a bit languid/sedate. There wasn't a lot of PRAT. However when I later listened to their second session with the LHY - 'Revisiting Switch 1' - towards the end of their marathon test, three hours after the first one, it sounded more energetic and dynamic to me. I flicked back and forth between the two and sure enough there's a lot better PRAT and speed & strength of transient response with the LHY in their second session. Sounded more like it does in my system. Indeed Martijn, their blinded listener, even comments on the PRAT, when he didn't first time round.

All this corresponds to my experience with the LHY OCK-1 & SW-8 - better they're left on semi-permanently of course, but they certainly sound better after being on for 3-5 hours+, preferably a day or more. I guess as both use decent OCXOs (LHY apparently indicated over email to someone who enquired on this that SW-8 = OCK-1, OCK-2 > SW8/OCK1) I've just assumed it's an oscillator stabilising thing. I believe the Alpha Audio guys switched them on 'only' 30 mins prior, which is a start, but not enough for OCXOs to hit their straps...

 

[mmwwmm]

For clock don´t buy "hifi hi-end" exotic kilobuck cables. Buy just military/lab specs cables from a specialized manufacturer. None of the hifi cable makers has the background and know how of the big names in lab/military/aerospatial industry (Harbour industries, Huber+Suhner, Pasternack, etc). By the way some of those lab cables are not cheap. Gustard C2 is a very good clock cable cause is just a rebranded one from one of those cable makers.

 

[sajunky]

For clock don´t buy "hifi hi-end" exotic kilobuck cables. Buy just military/lab specs cables from a specialized manufacturer. None of the hifi cable makers has the background and know how of the big names in lab/military/aerospatial industry (Harbour industries, Huber+Suhner, Pasternack, etc). By the way some of those lab cables are not cheap. Gustard C2 is a very good clock cable cause is just a rebranded one from one of those cable makers.

I agree. Which military spec you would recommend for clock feeder?

There are many, like there.

 

[mmwwmm]

I agree. Which military spec you would recommend for clock feeder?

There are many, like there.

Harbour industries SS402, Huber+Suhner Multiflex_141…to name just two very good examples (for 10Mhz clock data, that is)

 

[ChJL]

Alpha Audio's Switch test in English: https://alpha-audio.net/review/a-very-deep-dive-into-network-switches-listening-and-measuring/

Was surprised about Netgear and D-Link...
Also about their statement about LPSs.
Upgraded clock in a switch messes with timing, what?

Plus I've watched a video about an Aquvox (D-Link upgrade) switch, which was opened - drilled open. Funny

Mind****ery

 

[JaMo]

Was surprised about Netgear and D-Link...
Also about their statement about LPSs.
Upgraded clock in a switch messes with timing, what?

Plus I've watched a video about an Aquvox (D-Link upgrade) switch, which was opened - drilled open. Funny

Mind****ery

What they stated make some sense. The circuit boards/components of Netgear, D-Link ... are good designs as network switches. With their switched PSU's replaced by good LPS's better them even more. Switched PSU's are fast but most often give a bit harsh effect on the sound (My Mutec MC3+USB was suffering from this and got a LPS supplying instead and it is since then much better.). OCXO's in theirselves doesn't mess with the timing. As Martijn said..: "-It can very well be the architecture causing it". You must take on the play rules in their test and Martijn seem to have crazy sensitive ears and it was his preferencies that was giving the verdicts.

The setup was stock PSU's with all equipments and also the ethernet cables used was nothing fancy. On this level some tweaking is rewarding or punishing. But as always, we have to find the balance in the sound to our own preferencies.

In the second listening, the retest of the LHY Martijn had a different opinion. After a fuller warm up of the OCXO the sound was better timed. The only regret was the "over detailed sound" made it not the best match for over revealing equipment (dacs/amps).

Here where I am listening to the rig with the streamers connected to the LHY SW-8, I have nothing at all to complain about. I ordered the cheap Netgear GS108E and will pair it with an Ultra silent 12V LPS I have laying around unused. I just must test it.

/Jan

 

[DACLadder]

Guilty as charged re overthinking.. though I try with varying levels of success to keep it under control. FWIW the first cable of 3 I bought (the C2) was the best, so perhaps I fluked it on the first swing/shot. If so, thats thanks to the good recommendations of folk on the DI-20 thread especially.

Heard others comment positively about Gustard's C2 cable. The only thing suspect is the dual 50/75 ohm compatibility. Another one of those nebulous audio specs and nothing to back it up. The cable wire sure looks like RG402 coax and has 50 ohm BNC connectors. It is all about the sound though and would certainly try it in action. What other cable types have you tried?

The Gustard C2 cable for reference...
https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/gustard-c2-clock-bnc-coaxial-cable-hifi-digital-cable

 

[piguetpolo]

Here where I am listening to the rig with the streamers connected to the LHY SW-8, I have nothing at all to complain about. I ordered the cheap Netgear GS108E and will pair it with an Ultra silent 12V LPS I have laying around unused. I just must test it.

/Jan

Last month, I placed a netgear 5 port GS305 switch into my chain so that I could have additional networking to control my receiver and hardwire an Apple TV4k. This wasn't even for audiophile reasons, just didn't want 3 long cables running the length of my listening space.

Lo and behold, it sounded noticeably better. I think a great deal of that improvement had to do with powering the switch via the 1amp rail of a 5V Allo Shanti linear power supply. After reading the shootout, its good to know the hardware is solid as well. Dumb luck and very economical upgrade. The switch cost $15 bucks and the Shanti was $150 but the other 3 amp rail of that LPS also powers my streamer.

 

[JaMo]

Last month, I placed a netgear 5 port GS305 switch into my chain so that I could have additional networking to control my receiver and hardwire an Apple TV4k. This wasn't even for audiophile reasons, just didn't want 3 long cables running the length of my listening space.

Lo and behold, it sounded noticeably better. I think a great deal of that improvement had to do with powering the switch via the 1amp rail of a 5V Allo Shanti linear power supply. After reading the shootout, its good to know the hardware is solid as well. Dumb luck and very economical upgrade. The switch cost $15 bucks and the Shanti was $150 but the other 3 amp rail of that LPS also powers my streamer.

I think You were lucky to get a switch that seem to isolate good between the ports and that the hardware probably is low on noise. Sometimes we must win, right!? Congrats.
/Jan

 

[piguetpolo]

For clock don´t buy "hifi hi-end" exotic kilobuck cables. Buy just military/lab specs cables from a specialized manufacturer. None of the hifi cable makers has the background and know how of the big names in lab/military/aerospatial industry (Harbour industries, Huber+Suhner, Pasternack, etc). By the way some of those lab cables are not cheap. Gustard C2 is a very good clock cable cause is just a rebranded one from one of those cable makers.

I agree that without knowing, start basic and go up levels especially for the inexperienced—because cable testing is all about experience.

FYI for those wondering about Mil-spec, it doesn't necessarily mean the cables are tested for an extra level of precision beyond required tolerance. It means they are extra durable, overbuilt and bombproof for military use, as to not fail in the field. See below the detailed specifications for those interested. There are general and vague guidance around electrical specifications, but you'll see a lot of it has to do with material specs and durability test required to pass.

MIL-DTL-17 Rev. H​

To say that hi-fi kilobuck cable mfg don't have the background and know how? I can't say I completely agree. This especially if the designer behind the cable has the requisite scientific know-how and the wherewithal to work with a good supplier to achieve.

Yes, there's alot of arbitrage in the cable industry and for us, the mostly in-the-dark audiofools, its hard to navigate the marketing. All we have is our ears and that's all that matters—a particular sound you like and are going for, and there's not really a standard for that.