[dougms3]

Harmonic Technology Digital Copper III 75 ohm BNC-BNC vs Digital Silver III

After 215 hours with the Digital Copper III from the Mutec Ref10 SE120 to the AGD R8HE 10MHz input, I swapped the Copper to the HT Digital Silver III and after about 6 hours it was apparent that the Silver III sphere of holography expanded noticeably beyond the Copper. It was really nice to experience commensurate performance with price increase, especially for such a modestly priced product suite. It's hard to put a percentage of magnitude on this as these are spacial enhancements in the spherical domain vs lateral sound stage expansions beyond the boundaries of the speakers out to 180 degrees as I was previously used to. But the spacial demarcations of voices/instruments within the sphere are noticeably and vividly more unto themselves and for me adds a new sense of thrill to the listening experience.
A more artificial studio piece I always come back to is Led's "Since I've Been Loving You" where the kick drum, bass pedals and vocal occupy the phantom center channel, the rest of the drums are out of phase to the right from 0 degrees to about 40 degrees and the guitar [before the solo] appears around 100 degrees and the keyboard is around 135 degrees. The system spacial improvement shows up as more silence between the instruments making the out of phase mixed instruments show up as more vivid and real as opposed to previous upgrade improvements to my system where there were "degrees of less vagueness".

Also, the loud brass transients on "The Name Is Bond" from the Casino Royale sound track are presented much more convincingly with the Silver over the Copper to the same effect that the Copper was in a completely different league over the DH Labs Silver Sonic.

I probably shot myself in the foot on this one, but for $62 shipping, I bought a few extra cables and I still have the new Copper III for $158 with PP/Ship included to CONTUS if anyone has been holding back because of the $45 shipping from Labkable....

Rich

I know its not the best way to quantify the difference but if you had to relate in terms of %, how much better is HT Digital Silver III vs HT Digital Copper III ?

 

[Presence]

I know its not the best way to quantify the difference but if you had to relate in terms of %, how much better is HT Digital Silver III vs HT Digital Copper III ?

If the system has the resolving power, I would not want to go back to the copper.
Its a different paradigm to me as I'm hearing it as the start of becoming aware of spherical expansion.
Are you near Connecticut? You are always welcome to stop by to experience it.

 

[joenetic]

Yup
Now you can see why 50 ohm/75ohm doesn’t really matter at all for 10mhz clocks. I wouldn’t even start to worry about transmission line effects until 50MHz and a cable longer than 60cm.

But the article also mentioned that miss match of source, cable and load, will cause signal reflection, 50Mhz 60cm is a limit, the best signal power is still all match well, also agree with you if miss match not too much may not cause big loss of power.

 

[joenetic]

Yup
Now you can see why 50 ohm/75ohm doesn’t really matter at all for 10mhz clocks. I wouldn’t even start to worry about transmission line effects until 50MHz and a cable longer than 60cm.

Another issue is resistance is no more important in coaxial cable, just C and L are major, as our understanding so far, then the material OFC, OOC,... are they still important? The isolator material is more important

 

[camrector]

But the article also mentioned that miss match of source, cable and load, will cause signal reflection, 50Mhz 60cm is a limit, the best signal power is still all match well, also agree with you if miss match not too much may not cause big loss of power.

Only at distances and with frequency’s far greater than we would ever use.
This is a solid site
Case 1
finally shows a .05% error at 104mhz with a 1 meter mismatched impedance.
Case 2 was perfectly impedance matched and showed a 4.5% error at a
99mhz because of crappy connectors at 1meter.


https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/cable-length-rule-of-thumb

 

[joenetic]

Only at distances and with frequency’s far greater than we would ever use.
This is a solid site
Case 1
finally shows a .05% error at 104mhz with a 1 meter mismatched impedance.
Case 2 was perfectly impedance matched and showed a 4.5% error at a
99mhz because of crappy connectors at 1meter.


https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/cable-length-rule-of-thumb

Thanks for the information, can study more on the cable reflection

 

[dougms3]

If the system has the resolving power, I would not want to go back to the copper.
Its a different paradigm to me as I'm hearing it as the start of becoming aware of spherical expansion.
Are you near Connecticut? You are always welcome to stop by to experience it.

Thanks but CT is a bit far for me.

I really want to change out this LMR400 cable as I feel its the weakest point in my system and holding back the capability of the Di20he.

There doesn't seem to be good options for silver unless its $500+ range.

If you decide to sell the HT digital copper III lmk.

 

[Presence]

Thanks but CT is a bit far for me.

I really want to change out this LMR400 cable as I feel its the weakest point in my system and holding back the capability of the Di20he.

There doesn't seem to be good options for silver unless its $500+ range.

If you decide to sell the HT digital copper III lmk.

Sold 4/26.

 

[camrector]

Thanks for the information, can study more on the cable reflection

Of course!
Also this is a good article too.


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...Swenson_Clock_Considerations.pdf?v=1616799482

 

[DecentLevi]

I was thinking to finally get the OCK-2 soon. Is the 50 or 75 ohm recommended? 75 is what I gather from my reading, and that matches the BNC cable I got... But I thought it is either user selectable, or it has both 50 and 75, right?

And for the US, is it still recommended to buy from Beatechnik?
Thanks

 

[OCC7N]

I was thinking to finally get the OCK-2 soon. Is the 50 or 75 ohm recommended? 75 is what I gather from my reading, and that matches the BNC cable I got... But I thought it is either user selectable, or it has both 50 and 75, right?

And for the US, is it still recommended to buy from Beatechnik?
Thanks

It has switches for both 50/75 and ISO/GND. I don´t think you will find anything that will give you as much as the OCK-2 for the money.

I use 2 outputs only now with 75Ohm, but it seems in this thread and everywhere else HIFI/consumer related it is 50Ohm cables as preference.

 

[DecentLevi]

Cool, thanks FYI. So the 50/75 is selectable. I guess it's just for convenience that they ask us, so they can preconfigure it. And what is this I hear about the sine / square wave selections? How to set those?

 

[dougms3]

I was thinking to finally get the OCK-2 soon. Is the 50 or 75 ohm recommended? 75 is what I gather from my reading, and that matches the BNC cable I got... But I thought it is either user selectable, or it has both 50 and 75, right?

And for the US, is it still recommended to buy from Beatechnik?
Thanks

I bought mine from aliexpress for about $550.

The impedance is selectable via dip switches but they offer the option of 50 or 75 preset so that you don't have to open it up out of the box.

 

[camrector]

It has switches for both 50/75 and ISO/GND. I don´t think you will find anything that will give you as much as the OCK-2 for the money.

I use 2 outputs only now with 75Ohm, but it seems in this thread and everywhere else HIFI/consumer related it is 50Ohm cables as preference.

What will the OCK -2 give you?
Any specs or measurements?

 

[joenetic]

Of course!
Also this is a good article too.


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...Swenson_Clock_Considerations.pdf?v=1616799482

Thanks for this, simply explain the sin and square wave clock, cable concern on sin and square wave clock, my clock is sin wave output, so good shielding is the most important according to the document