[Techy1210]

Or, just convince yourself that the difference really is there. It's a strategy that leverages cognitive biases that is often employed by audiophiles, as well as enthusiasts of all manner of disciplines.

I'll try not to fall into that trap, and let my ears decide whether it was worth it or not.

 

[koover]

Or, just convince yourself that the difference really is there. It's a strategy that leverages cognitive biases that is often employed by audiophiles, as well as enthusiasts of all manner of disciplines.

I respectively disagree. There’s no placibo. Maybe you don’t hear a difference but I most certainly do with many others feeling the same way. I own both and whereas it’s not night and day, the audible differences are apperant, not world shattering.

 

[Jaywalk3r]

There’s no placibo.

In the case of the 58x vs 6xx, maybe, maybe not.

In general, cognitive biases are a major driver for high-end audio (and non-audio) sales.

 

[koover]

In the case of the 58x vs 6xx, maybe, maybe not.

In general, cognitive biases are a major driver for high-end audio (and non-audio) sales.

That’s why I’ll never drop $3000 on any headphone. Gimmie a great $800-$1000 pair and I’m a very happy man as that’s endgame to me. The law of diminishing returns in headphone sonic wise is one of the strongest in any catagory of basically “”anything”

 

[DavidA]

After receiving my 58X's recently, and being really impressed with them, I've just went and ordered a pair of 6xx's too, but now I'm starting to worry a little that I've just spent more money on something that I may not find much different to what I already have in the 58x's.

I've asked previously about this, and the response seemed to indicate there was enough difference between the two to justify owning both.
Just thought I'd throw this question in again to anyone reading this now to maybe ease or confirm my concerns?

I still have time to cancel my order, and I am considering it.

While they do sound different enough to own both just keep in mind that the HD6XX being 300ohm vs 150ohm of the HD58X will be a bit more difficult to drive properly. To me the HD58X like the HD660S sounds quite good on almost any gear while the HD650/6XX pretty much need a decent amp (OTL is my preference) to make them sound good/great IMO. If you want a different sound I'd go for a planar (HD4XX or similar) since its a different technology and will definitely sound different.

There's enough difference that it's evident. As for one being better than the other I thing it depends of what you like. I don't like the HD6XX unless paired with the Aune X7s (for some reason they sound amazing with that amp), on any other amp (that I've tried) I prefer the sound of the HD58X. I sold the HD6XX, the HD58X is good enough most of the time. The HD6XX is certainly more refined, and technically may be superior, but I cannot stand that "veil" that some people say doesn't exist.

I don't think there is a "veil" but the HD6XX does have the treble rolled off and this is not the same as what a veiled sound is to me.

 

[Techy1210]

While they do sound different enough to own both just keep in mind that the HD6XX being 300ohm vs 150ohm of the HD58X will be a bit more difficult to drive properly. To me the HD58X like the HD660S sounds quite good on almost any gear while the HD650/6XX pretty much need a decent amp (OTL is my preference) to make them sound good/great IMO. If you want a different sound I'd go for a planar (HD4XX or similar) since its a different technology and will definitely sound different

Yes I'm aware of the difference in ohms, thanks. I purchased a Schiit Magni 3 a week or so ago, I'd imagine it should be enough to handle the 6XX's

Edit: Yes I do like the look of those planars, and many other headphones, such as a few Audio Technica's I've seen around, which I will no doubt add to my collection at some point.

 

[tolis626]

Yes I'm aware of the difference in ohms, thanks. I purchased a Schiit Magni 3 a week or so ago, I'd imagine it should be enough to handle the 6XX's

Edit: Yes I do like the look of those planars, and many other headphones, such as a few Audio Technica's I've seen around, which I will no doubt add to my collection at some point.

Well, the Magni 3 is not enough for the 650/6xx. Not in terms of raw power, it's got that, no issue. Power wise, the Magni 3 can drive like maybe over 99% of what's on the market. But there's also the quality of the amplifier and its character. The 650 benefit from the slight warmth and probably the slow response of tube amps. Tube amps are inherently flawed in the way they work (I mean, it IS an ancient technology and they distort far more than solid states), but made properly, they can use these "flaws" to give character to the music you're listening to. There's a certain degree of sweetness to a good tube amp, a warmth that's very hard to come by in a solid state amp. SS amps are made to be as transparent as possible. Tube amps are meant to distort and mess with your sound, that's what makes them great. The 6 line from Sennheiser is probably the set of headphones that responds best to a tube amp. I have no first hand experience of that, but if they're anything like speakers that do well with tubes, the difference is usually sort of like this : On one hand, you have the solid states that are like a professional pianist that plays the partiture completely technically and tries to stay as faithful to the paper as possible, down to the timings and keys. On the other hand, tubes are like a less technically correct pianist that just can do something to the piano to make it sing and cry and sound beatiful because he introduces "mistakes" in his playing, like altering the tempo for dramatic effect.

PS : On the other hand, if you get a planar, just don't bother using tubes. Planars need current to be driven and tubes don't really do current that well, but they excel at voltage swings. They're usually low impedance, so the high output impedance of tubes messes their sound up and usually the result is less than desirable. In that case, the Magni 3 would be a better bet.

 

[VRacer-111]

Yes I'm aware of the difference in ohms, thanks. I purchased a Schiit Magni 3 a week or so ago, I'd imagine it should be enough to handle the 6XX's

Edit: Yes I do like the look of those planars, and many other headphones, such as a few Audio Technica's I've seen around, which I will no doubt add to my collection at some point.

Personally have not been a real fan of most planars - just too flat sounding for me (including Audeze LCD lineup, Monoprice M1060, Fostex T50/T40 RP, HE-4XX.) I appreciate the technical abilities of most planars, but they just don't have the low end presentation and fullness of sound I get from the Fostex Biodyna dynamic drivers I love or the punchiness and dynamics of the STAX, and those are things I value more than speed/linearity/precision. I do like the Audeze Mobius more than the ones I listed above, but it still is not what I'm exactly looking for in a planar.

I have found a planar though, which seems to be what I was looking for and has made me put aside both the HD58X and TH-X00PH right now... and if you know anything about my preferences, you know the TH-X00PH are/were my favorite headphones (next to the STAX L300 Limiteds) and I do like the HD58X quite a bit. This planar I love is none other than the Modhouse Argon Mk3 - it just really needs the right mix of gear to bring out it's full sound. With a good setup getting its full sound, I could listen to the Argon Mk3 and not care that I have the STAX setup... it's that good to me. You do miss out on the full detail, precision, and immediacy of the highs compared to the STAX L300 Limited, but on its own it's quite good.

The low end is simply PHENOMINAL on the Argon Mk3s (with ZMF Lambskin pads) ... much better extension than on the TH-X00PH, and even slightly better than the STAX L300 Limited with similar technical qualities... nice speed, clarity, and punch. The low end is also very full sounding like a dynamic driver as opposed to a normal planar sound, yet extremely clean, clear, and punchy. It's like a planar, dynamic, and electrostat all combined into a single unique planar headphone... also has a very unique soundscape the music is presented in as well. The TH-X00 PH is very 'one-note' sub-bass/bass in comparison and the LCD series/M1060 are just so flat and dark sounding. I would like to try the ZMF Protein pads on it, but from descriptions of the sound differences feel it would probably be a step back from the Lambskin pads for me. The Argon Mk3 may just be my favorite overall headphone... and it just happens to be a planar driver headphone...

 

[SilverEars]

Personally have not been a real fan of most planars - just too flat sounding for me (including Audeze LCD lineup, Monoprice M1060, Fostex T50/T40 RP, HE-4XX.) I appreciate the technical abilities of most planars, but they just don't have the low end presentation and fullness of sound I get from the Fostex Biodyna dynamic drivers I love or the punchiness and dynamics of the STAX, and those are things I value more than speed/linearity/precision. I do like the Audeze Mobius more than the ones I listed above, but it still is not what I'm exactly looking for in a planar.

I have found a planar though, which seems to be what I was looking for and has made me put aside both the HD58X and TH-X00PH right now... and if you know anything about my preferences, you know the TH-X00PH are/were my favorite headphones (next to the STAX L300 Limiteds) and I do like the HD58X quite a bit. This planar I love is none other than the Modhouse Argon Mk3 - it just really needs the right mix of gear to bring out it's full sound. With a good setup getting its full sound, I could listen to the Argon Mk3 and not care that I have the STAX setup... it's that good to me. You do miss out on the full detail, precision, and immediacy of the highs compared to the STAX L300 Limited, but on its own it's quite good.

The low end is simply PHENOMINAL on the Argon Mk3s (with ZMF Lambskin pads) ... much better extension than on the TH-X00PH, and even slightly better than the STAX L300 Limited with similar technical qualities... nice speed, clarity, and punch. The low end is also very full sounding like a dynamic driver as opposed to a normal planar sound, yet extremely clean, clear, and punchy. It's like a planar, dynamic, and electrostat all combined into a single unique planar headphone... also has a very unique soundscape the music is presented in as well. The TH-X00 PH is very 'one-note' sub-bass/bass in comparison and the LCD series/M1060 are just so flat and dark sounding. I would like to try the ZMF Protein pads on it, but from descriptions of the sound differences feel it would probably be a step back from the Lambskin pads for me. The Argon Mk3 may just be my favorite overall headphone... and it just happens to be a planar driver headphone...

Fostex sounds the way it does due to purposeful wood resonance. They open it up around the rings, but keep it as a cup to bring out that wood acoustics. I do find that it works quite well for providing that visceral bass, or I would say even beyond that paints a character in the bass. I think this closed-ness with the cups is the reason why it's very difficult to get mids up without getting it muddy, they have to scoup it out so it doesn't bleed (if you look at the newer closed headphone frequency response, you see they used a method to dip and block bass bleed).

This is why Sennheiser is the way it is, none of those problems.

I'm sure the ZMF are just glorified Fostex with decor. I guess what distinguish them is when they started open up the cup at the center with the Auteur, and I see Fostex doing the same with the TH-909.

I wonder how a wood cupped planar would sound like? Planar can have interesting bass, and HE1000 proof of that. Perhaps it actually does put out subs comparatively to other. Its very interesting when bass is linear to subs.

 

[Tuneslover]

The HD58x was among my most disappointing Massdrop purchases. It also might be the best headphone value available.

While the HD58x is a fantastic value proposition, I already have the HD6xx/HD650. To read reviews, I expected an obvious difference in sound (i.e., the proverbial night & day difference) with the HD58x compared to the HD650/6xx, but it's essentially the same headphone with the same sound, just with half the impedance. While I could justify the HD6xx when I already owned the HD650 (transporting between home and office was a pain), the cost of the HD58x isn't justified by the minimal difference from the HD650/6xx.

Most people, including audiophiles, would be similarly satisfied (or dissatisfied) with either headphone. The one that best matches the source/DAC/amp/DAP already used is the best choice. Or just get the HD58x if you're on a budget. But there's very little reason to purchase both.

Hahaha, I own 2 pair of HD58X and 2 pair of HD650 (well actually 1 is an HD6XX). I modded the 650 and one pair of my 58X (today coincidentally).

 

[Tuneslover]

I respectively disagree. There’s no placibo. Maybe you don’t hear a difference but I most certainly do with many others feeling the same way. I own both and whereas it’s not night and day, the audible differences are apperant, not world shattering.

I agree

 

[VRacer-111]

The difference between the HD58X and HD6XX can be summed up in 3 words: subbass, punchiness, openness... which the HD58X brings over the HD6XX. They do sound close to each other, but there is a noticeable difference between them that should be easily distinguishable.

 

[VRacer-111]

Fostex sounds the way it does due to purposeful wood resonance. They open it up around the rings, but keep it as a cup to bring out that wood acoustics. I do find that it works quite well for providing that visceral bass, or I would say even beyond that paints a character in the bass. I think this closed-ness with the cups is the reason why it's very difficult to get mids up without getting it muddy, they have to scoup it out so it doesn't bleed (if you look at the newer closed headphone frequency response, you see they used a method to dip and block bass bleed).

This is why Sennheiser is the way it is, none of those problems.

I'm sure the ZMF are just glorified Fostex with decor. I guess what distinguish them is when they started open up the cup at the center with the Auteur, and I see Fostex doing the same with the TH-909.

I wonder how a wood cupped planar would sound like? Planar can have interesting bass, and HE1000 proof of that. Perhaps it actually does put out subs comparatively to other. Its very interesting when bass is linear to subs.

You've pretty much described why I like my modded Purplehearts... nothing does visceral bass with full sounding mids and energetic highs like them, not even the Campfire Audio Cascades which are bass light in comparison. The Lawton damping does help out with bettering the clarity, detail, and instrument separation and makes it pretty decent. Not quite HD58X decent, though the TH-X00PH do sound clearer, especially when no massive bass is present in tracks. Don't wan't to say the HD58X sound muffled, but they are just not as clear sounding as many of my other headphones.

Wood cupped planar like Monoprice M1060C or Audeze LCD-XC? Have not heard either of them but would like to. The Argon Mk3 bass is entirely different than most any other planar subbass I've heard... subbass with some power and punch behind it, like a dynamic but much cleaner and quicker... like say a Focal Clear with more subbass oomph and similar to slightly more punch.

 

[SilverEars]

You've pretty much described why I like my modded Purplehearts... nothing does visceral bass with full sounding mids and energetic highs like them, not even the Campfire Audio Cascades which are bass light in comparison. The Lawton damping does help out with bettering the clarity, detail, and instrument separation and makes it pretty decent. Not quite HD58X decent, though the TH-X00PH do sound clearer, especially when no massive bass is present in tracks. Don't wan't to say the HD58X sound muffled, but they are just not as clear sounding as many of my other headphones.

Wood cupped planar like Monoprice M1060C or Audeze LCD-XC? Have not heard either of them but would like to. The Argon Mk3 bass is entirely different than most any other planar subbass I've heard... subbass with some power and punch behind it, like a dynamic but much cleaner and quicker... like say a Focal Clear with more subbass oomph and similar to slightly more punch.

Wow, more bass than Cascades? I don't know if I can handle it. LOL. I would guess different kind of more, not slamming impact more I take it. Because I thought Cascades were heavily slamming impactful bass. So much slam doesn't suit me. I like the lower-end bass with visceral feel with that wood resonance.

I think the Fostex drivers are limited for resolution.

I forgot about those wood covered closed-back planars. Are they for acoustics or show? I was thinking more in lines of how ZMF or the new TH-909 does the wood with the opening (partial wood covering).

 

[VRacer-111]

Wow, more bass than Cascades? I don't know if I can handle it. LOL. I would guess different kind of more, not slamming impact more I take it. Because I thought Cascades were heavily slamming impactful bass. So much slam doesn't suit me. I like the lower-end bass with visceral feel with that wood resonance.

I think the Fostex drivers are limited for resolution.

I forgot about those wood covered closed-back planars. Are they for acoustics or show? I was thinking more in lines of how ZMF or the new TH-909 does the wood with the opening (partial wood covering).

Yes more bass, but kind of like the difference between HD58X and HD6XX. The TH-X00PH is more about a massive subbass presence while the Cascade doesn't have that presence but is kind of close but with a punchier and tighter overall sound. Think Hans Zimmer massive "BWWWWWAAAAAAAAAA' low end... my modded TH-X00PH is that headphone where you feel the bass notes and the low end just totally envelopes you.

To put it another way, Cascades are very nice for this song:


But absolutely TH-X00 PH all the way for this song:


And the Argon Mk3 rocks for both those songs!