Maryland mini-meet impressions (12/10)
Dec 13, 2005 at 3:46 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 45

Hirsch

Why is there a chaplain standing over his wallet?
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The Saturday afternoon mini-meets occur pretty regularly these days. This Saturday was a bit different in that we listened to a few new items. I only took a few pictures, and hope that someone else fills in the gaps (there was at least one more camera there). I was there with Stevieo, Thrice, Dave1, CD44hi, and Dusty Chalk.

First is the M3*3. Well, actually it's (M3 x 2) + (2 x M3 ). Thrice (Rockhopper Audio) brought over a balanced M3 along with a single-ended M3, seen here with mine also. Note that the middle amp, although single-ended, uses a 4-pin Neutrik jack, which also appears on the balanced amp in addition to the normal pair of 3-pin jacks. I like the idea here.

meet01.jpg


Balanced W100's, balanced SA5000's, and the K-1000 were among the headphones used. Note thrice's Wadia source. In the M3, the main effect of balancing first appears in the low end, which has better definition than the single-ended version. Differences between the balanced and single-ended versions are more subtle than I've heard with other amps. I suspect that this is due to the active ground of the M3 design. The active circuitry on both sides of the headphone is a key feature of balanced amps, and there's already active circuitry in the ground on a single-ended M3. So the amp may already be halfway toward "balanced" sound in the stock form.

meet02.jpg


Firestone Audio's Cute Encore and Cute Beyond were present last week and this week. From the outside, these amps appear almost identical. There's a very attractive milled chassis with colored faceplates. The headphone jack is 1/8" only. The Encore is a Class AB design that is direct-coupled.

meet04.jpg


The Firestone amps are identical from the rear, with power and gain switches. Most headphones will work fine at low gain. These amps can push a K-1000 at high gain.

meet05.jpg


The Beyond is a Class A design. Note that the volume pot is user switchable between shunt and series type control. Note also that the op amps are socketed for easy user replacement.

meet5a.jpg


The Encore is a Class AB, and is direct-coupled to the headphone.

meet5b.jpg


Power is provided by 24v wall adapters. In addition, Firestone makes an upgraded power supply that will operate either of the amps. I'm going to have a lot more to say about these amps in the amps forum. These amps are an amazing value at their price point ($170), and are an easy recommendation for a great sounding introductory amp. IMO the Beyond is just a bit smoother than the Encore, but the sound is very close. I really want to hear what the upgraded power supply does for these.

meet06.jpg


Getting down to business, we also wanted to compare electrostatic headphones on the Wadia/Stax SRM-007t rig.

meet07.jpg


We also threw in a Stax SRM-313 as a point of comparison. However, the 007t is simply a better amp, and easily distinguishable to me in an informal blind test.

meet08.jpg


I don't have pictures of all the electrostatic headphones used. We had Sennheiser HE90, HE60 (pictured), Stax Omega II, Stax SR-303, SR-202, and Lambda Pro (pictured). TheLambda Pro is a headphone I've been wanting to get my hands on since hearing Danny's in NY at bozebuttons' mini-meet. It's very obvious in direct comparison with the other electrostatics that the current line of Stax headphones represents a very dramatic revoicing of the sound, and one that is not necessarily for the better. The Lambda Pro had clearly deeper bass than the SR-303, and possibly deeper than the Omega II. Where the Lambda Pro excels is at instrument definition. Listening to a saxophone break, the SR-303 made the sax sound a bit flattened, with no real depth. Switching to Lambda Pro, the sound became fuller and deeper. The image seemed to become better defined. The Omega II brings a very different set of strengths to the table. Where it excels is at "weight", if you will. There's a great deal of impact, and a sense of reality of the instruments that the Lambda Pro simply can't beat. Even so, the Lambda Pro might have been the more detailed headphone. One thing became abundantly clear, though. When the Orpheus came out, all of the other headphones paled. That headphone has the complete package. Image, impact, definition, you name it. Nothing came close. IMO, the bottom line is that electrostatic headphones can be divided into two classes: the Sennheiser Orpheus and everything else. It really is that much better.

meet09.jpg


But the Lambda Pro also came with the SRD-7 adapter to drive the headphones from a power amp. To give it a try, I hooked up the Sonic T-amp with iRiver iHP-140 as the source. I really only wanted to do this to see if the adapter worked. However, the surprise to me is that this sounded good. Not "good for the price" just plain good. I did not feel a sense of "I need to plug this back into the 007t" at any point. The music just kept coming at me. It worked with any headphone, including Lambda Pro, HE60, and the HE90 pictured. Yeah, that's a $30 amp playing mp3's pushing a $5000 headphone (sorry, I couldn't help myself). There is no way that should have sounded that good. But it did. Luckily, I had witnesses to confirm this.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it
tongue.gif


meet10.jpg
 
Dec 13, 2005 at 4:45 AM Post #2 of 45
i might add that the sonic-t rig sounded so much better when the headroom micro dac was hooked up to the iriver. i would not have believed that cheap battery powered low tech components could make electrostatics sound so damn good unless i heard it with my own ears & saw it with my own eyes & i am still not sure that the whole thing was not a figment of my imagination but that rig was smokin & the orpheus was astounding. it just shows that a $6k can can sound great even with a $25 sonic-T & an mp3 encoded source .

another treat for me was a chance to listen to the nordost red dawn balanced ic's that cd44hi had on hand. i had to break down an order a pair of the single ended version. nice ic's & worth investigating for those in the market.

it was also a great opportunity to compare the tried & true rockhopper m3's & the new prototype balanced rockhopper. too soon to comment until thrice upgrades the balanced version.

hirsch, i know you have some more worthy pics that should be posted.

another good meet a a great chance to compare a variety of electrostatics.
 
Dec 13, 2005 at 3:51 PM Post #5 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L
Did you guys compare AKG K1000 on T-amp vs. electrostatics on T-amp? I see a photo of K1000 in the pictures.



we did not compare the K1K with the sonic t-amp at this meet. that was a balanced K1K for use with the M3's. we have tried the K1K in the past with the sonic t-amp & it was hard to imagine that it actually did the job & sounded better than a $25 amp should. there was an article in forbe's magazine a few issues back about the sonic-t amp & it's unexpected success.
 
Dec 13, 2005 at 3:58 PM Post #6 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by Salt Peanuts
Just out of curiosity, how did the T-amp/SRD-7 combo compare to the other two drivers, 007t and 313?



it compared favorably for a $25 battery powered piece of plastic considering the source was mp3 & the source for the other amps was a wadia. the fact that it compared at all was the shocker.
 
Dec 13, 2005 at 4:05 PM Post #7 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieo
it compared favorably for a $25 battery powered piece of plastic considering the source was mp3 & the source for the other amps was a wadia. the fact that it compared at all was the shocker.


That's good to hear, I may have to pick one up. I noticed the source discrepancy right after I posted the question and realized that it wasn't exactly the most fair comparison.
 
Dec 13, 2005 at 4:05 PM Post #8 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieo
that was a balanced K1K for use with the M3's. we have tried the K1K in the past with the sonic t-amp & it was hard to imagine that it actually did the job & sounded better than a $25 amp should.


Actually the K-1000 is inherently balanced compatible, as the channels are separate through the cable. The SAC amp designed for AKG and marketed by them was balanced. An adapter cable has to be used to drive the K-1000 single-ended.

No direct comparison of electrostatics and K-1000 on T-amp. However, the RKV is a better K-1000 driver than the T-amp in any event (that comparison I've done). I did tend to prefer the T-amp to the SAC amp, which I later sold.

There was no real direct comparison of the T-amp to the other drivers at the meet. We just set it up and listened to it play music with rather stunned expressions on our faces (I really wish I had a pic of Stevieo's first listen with the Baby O out of the T-amp. His expression was priceless
wink.gif
).
 
Dec 13, 2005 at 8:43 PM Post #9 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch
I hooked up the Sonic T-amp with iRiver iHP-140 as the source. I really only wanted to do this to see if the adapter worked. However, the surprise to me is that this sounded good. Not "good for the price" just plain good. I did not feel a sense of "I need to plug this back into the 007t" at any point. The music just kept coming at me. It worked with any headphone, including Lambda Pro, HE60, and the HE90 pictured. Yeah, that's a $30 amp playing mp3's pushing a $5000 headphone (sorry, I couldn't help myself). There is no way that should have sounded that good. But it did. Luckily, I had witnesses to confirm this.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it
tongue.gif


meet10.jpg



My reference is the iHP-120 and maybe they're different. But from this pic, it appears the cable going to the T-amp is coming from the mini optical out of the iRiver and not the headphone out jack. The SI T-amp is not a DAC + amp is it?
 
Dec 13, 2005 at 9:17 PM Post #10 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch

But the Lambda Pro also came with the SRD-7 adapter to drive the headphones from a power amp. To give it a try, I hooked up the Sonic T-amp with iRiver iHP-140 as the source. I really only wanted to do this to see if the adapter worked. However, the surprise to me is that this sounded good. Not "good for the price" just plain good. I did not feel a sense of "I need to plug this back into the 007t" at any point. The music just kept coming at me. It worked with any headphone, including Lambda Pro, HE60, and the HE90 pictured. Yeah, that's a $30 amp playing mp3's pushing a $5000 headphone (sorry, I couldn't help myself). There is no way that should have sounded that good. But it did. Luckily, I had witnesses to confirm this.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it
tongue.gif



Enjoy the Music had a similar surprised reaction. But I'm glad my poor lil SRM-1/MKII is holding on! Curse you, ghetto electrostat combos!
 
Dec 13, 2005 at 10:11 PM Post #11 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat
My reference is the iHP-120 and maybe they're different. But from this pic, it appears the cable going to the T-amp is coming from the mini optical out of the iRiver and not the headphone out jack. The SI T-amp is not a DAC + amp is it?


It could also be the line-out of the ihp-120.
 
Dec 13, 2005 at 10:59 PM Post #13 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat
Are you saying the mini optical out can also be used as an analog line level output?.


yes
wink.gif
 
Dec 14, 2005 at 2:12 AM Post #14 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat
Are you saying the mini optical out can also be used as an analog line level output?.


Not on the iHP-140. It has separate headphone, optical and line outputs. The output on the far right is the line out.

We used the optical out to drive a Headroom MicroDAC a bit after the pics were taken. I'm very impressed by the Headroom DAC. It's useful in places I didn't even think to use a DAC before.
 
Dec 14, 2005 at 3:44 AM Post #15 of 45
It was a fun meet. Man those Orpheus headphones are something...out of just about anything. The SIT amp in conjunction with the STAX adapter and so forth was amazing. There's a great transportable 'stat rig for sure.

Hirsch had picked up a pair of STAX Lambda pros off eBay and they were great too. Sometimes the oldies ARE the goodies and not the newer models.

I'll post pics later with more impressions.

Oh and it's an "M cubed-squared" or some such silliness like that
 

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