Marantz HD-DAC1
Jan 11, 2015 at 3:11 PM Post #106 of 1,283
I'm very interested in the pairing of the HD-DAC1 with the HD800's, Has anyone perhaps gotten an opportunity to listen to the HD800's through the HD-DAC1 as a combination DAC/amp, and as a DAC only, feeding a dedicated amp? If so, what were your observations (in terms of the quality and sonic pairing of the Marantz with the Sennheiser as an all-in-one)?
 
Cheers
X
 
Jan 11, 2015 at 5:48 PM Post #107 of 1,283
OK,

I have now spent some significant time with the HD-DAC1, here are my findings so far.

I have listened to the following two configurations:


  • HD-DAC1 with Marantz CD-80 digital out as the source (i.e. only used as a transport, S/PDIF, both optical and coax, 44.1kHz 16bit PCM).
  • HD-DAC1 with a Seagate Backup Slim external USB hard drive (because it is really quiet), 44.1kHz 16bit PCM encoded .wav files.


And for comparison:


  • Marantz SA-11S3, headphone out.
  • Marantz SA-11S3, analogue out into a Lehmann Linear headphone amp.


All with the following headphones:


  • Sennheiser HD800
  • Sennheiser HD540 (version I ; 600 Ohm)
  • Sennheiser HD650


You will notice I have no DSD sources to use for testing. I have loads of SACDs, but licensing prohibits SACD players to output the hi-res digital signal via unencrypted ports (i.e. not on S/PDIF) :mad:. All material used was consistent between the setups, all USB .wav files were ripped from the same CD's used in the SA-11S3 and CD-80.

The quick stuff:

One observation to get out of the way first is that none of these combinations make much of a difference to the relative sound characters of the HD800, HD650 and HD540. All three are driven with ease by the HD-DAC1, and all sound great with the HD-DAC1 provided you like the character of each of these headphones to begin with.

The second observation worth noting is that as far as using USB vs SPDIF (optical and coax in): I can't say I heard any difference to be honest with you.

The detailed stuff:

Although the HD-DAC1 has the typical Marantz sound characterization (smooth, yet detailed and engaging), compared to the SA-11S3 / Lehmann Linear combo it does sound just that little more analytical. Some who find Marantz' house sound just a little too smooth may be pleased to hear this. Again I should note that to some this may not be an issue at all, and they might in fact find the SA-11S3 / Lehmann combo a little too smooth ("veiled" perhaps even...) even with the HD800.

However, it is easy to hear that whatever philosophy Marantz have put in their SA-11S3 DAC also has found its way into the HD-DAC1. The DAC does a superb job on plain old fashioned 44.1kHz PCM source material. (For those of you familiar with the SA-11S3, I have been using it with filter setting 1).

The SA-11S3 / Lehmann combo does just have the edge over the HD-DAC1 when it comes to depth and definition, but only marginally. Given the approx. $5,000 price difference we are seeing here, the HD-DAC is punching miles above its price level. I would say that for its price level the HD-DAC1 has superb spacial imaging. The sound is very engaging, and you regularly forget to listen critically and find yourself simply swept away and absorbed in the music. In my book that's a good thing. SA-11S3 or HD-DAC1, 44.1kHz 16bit PCM has never sounded this good before in my experience...

The HD-DAC1 headphone amp runs circles around the headphone out on the SA-11S3 (as does the Lehmann to be honest). This is not to say the the SA-11S3 headphone out is bad, far from it. Both the HD-DAC1 and Lehmann however clearly have much tighter control over the headphones bass and mid response, which makes me think the SA-11S3 employs the usual 120 Ohm or so resistor in the output. It is worth noting that both the HD-DAC1 and Lehmann use a zero global feedback final current output stage, and both sound like they have a very low output impedance. I believe the Lehman is about 5 Ohm or so, and the HD-DAC1 may be even less given the use of the Darlingtons in the final zero feedback current stage (I don't think the Lehmann uses Darlingtons here). Both use an opamp with feedback topology for the voltage amplification stage, an integrated opamp in the case of the Lehmann and Marantz' HDAM discrete opamp in case of the HD-DAC1.

And as far the less important stuff:

The mechanical construction is undeniably good for the price level, but not up to SA-11S3 level (what is?). The chassis is made of heavy-guage steel plate. The front is made of extruded aluminum (can't tell whether the black version is anodized or painted. On balance I'd say it is painted). The top is heavy-guage stamped steel plate again, painted from the looks of it. The side panels look like wood (from a distance!), but are actually a wood print on some material I have yet to determine (haven't opened up mine yet). Knob bezels and display bezels appear to be plastic. Still, it is nice to see a manufacturer who can see the advantage even at this price level of using metal instead of plastic for all major structural elements.

I haven't used the analogue input, this has a sensitivity of only 200mV. I did try the variable analogue out of the CD-80 on this, but wasn't impressed. It sounded somewhat too warm colored to me, but then again I didn't spend much time with it. In any case, the analogue in has been reported to go (analogue in) > (Burr Brown PCM9211 ADC 24bit 96kHz) > (CS4398 DAC) > (volume control) > (headphone amp) instead of the (analogue in) > (volume control) > (headphone amp) I would like to have seen, so it is of little use to me.

Concluding

This is a very nice and analogue sounding DAC / headphone amp. It has the typical smooth, detailed and engaging Marantz sound, albeit just that little more analytical than I am used to from Marantz. The only thing missing is a proper RCA analogue input directly into the headphone amp. Nevertheless, the HD-DAC1 is extemely good value for money. I think Marantz could double the price and it would still look like an attractive package. A superbly implemented DAC, a superb headphone amp, and a superb construction. Recommended!
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 1:03 AM Post #108 of 1,283
Thank you so much for the detailed impressions!
 
This is definitely on my shortlist at the moment, together with the Teac UD-301. Both seem very similar in terms of capability: multiple digital inputs, DSD and DXD support, up to 24/192 via USB, very good headphone output, etc. The Teac is also meant to have quite a warm, full character. The only technical (functional) differences are that the Marantz has analog input (albeit mini jack) while the Teac does not; and that the Teac has fully balanced output and the Marantz only SE.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 7:20 AM Post #109 of 1,283
I have both the UD 301 & HD Dac 1. They are different animals and are both excellent. The Teac is (perhaps) more transparent, but less refined than the Marantz, which is very smooth & easy to listen to. Build quality of the Marantz is very good indeed. Teac also good, but more industrial.
 
The head amp on the Marantz, I feel, is superior to the Teac's - tighter bass, perhaps more drive, variable gain settings. But the Marantz is also perhaps more polite than the Teac, which is rawer and abit rougher round the edges (a trait I quite like).
 
DSD via USB into both is excellent - locks onto both 2.8 & 5.6 without difficulty via A+. Teac has problems with A+ and appears to accept DoP/PCM conversion only. However via the Teac HD Player it plays (extracted) .iso's very well (either in Phillips or Sony formats). 
 
Teac has XLR out if that is important to you (I like it for my power amp). Marantz has a remote (points for that!).
 
Overall I would say it's hard to go wrong with either unit for head fi: it depends I would have thought on one's ears and gears. I like each, for different reasons. Good thing is they are cheap enough you can keep both.
 
I have said it before - it is amazing what you can buy for under $800 these days...
 
I agree wholeheartedly with what 2leftears wrote:
 
Concluding

This is a very nice and analogue sounding DAC / headphone amp. It has the typical smooth, detailed and engaging Marantz sound, albeit just that little more analytical than I am used to from Marantz. The only thing missing is a proper RCA analogue input directly into the headphone amp. Nevertheless, the HD-DAC1 is extemely good value for money. I think Marantz could double the price and it would still look like an attractive package. A superbly implemented DAC, a superb headphone amp, and a superb construction. Recommended!

 
Jan 12, 2015 at 7:46 AM Post #110 of 1,283
Thanks very much for the feedback - very valuable! 
 
The smoothness of the Marantz (their typical house sound) is something my ears enjoy, especially with the HD800's. I have a BUDA in the cupboard so was initially only looking for DACs with balanced output, but the BUDA has a phase splitter for unbalanced inputs so the DAC1 would work fine with it and I would still get the benefit of the balanced amplification. 
 
If I got for the DAC1 I will experiment between the DAC1's headamp and the DAC1 feeding the BUDA so gauge how much of a difference it would make.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 12:01 PM Post #111 of 1,283
  Thank you so much for the detailed impressions!
 
This is definitely on my shortlist at the moment, together with the Teac UD-301. Both seem very similar in terms of capability: multiple digital inputs, DSD and DXD support, up to 24/192 via USB, very good headphone output, etc. The Teac is also meant to have quite a warm, full character. The only technical (functional) differences are that the Marantz has analog input (albeit mini jack) while the Teac does not; and that the Teac has fully balanced output and the Marantz only SE.

 
Tricka above has more insight than I do but the UD-301 was the one I spent the most time comparing with in-store before I purchased the Marantz. Sonically the 301 is very nice but the two are worlds apart in size, appearance, and build quality.  The Marantz knobs might (?) be plastic but they don't feel like it as they are well weighted. The Teac feels plasticky and light. If I were constrained on space, the Teac would be a good choice, but the Marantz is in another league with the build. And if your headphones aren't the easiest to drive, the Marantz has more guts behind the headphone amp.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 3:04 PM Post #112 of 1,283
Hey guys, I just picked this DAC up and am currently burning it in. However, the Marantz "clicking" noise is driving me crazy. I noticed others were also complaining about the clicking noise. Every time I start or stop anything with the DAC then there is a loud clicking noise. Is this an inherent trait of the Marantz DAC and there is nothing that can be done about it. I tried adjusting various setting in JRiver but to no avail. Besides the annoying click, I'm definitely enjoying the sound of this DAC.  So far it seems more musical than my previous Sabre 9016 based DAC. Thanks.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 3:54 PM Post #114 of 1,283
The Marantz knobs might (?) be plastic but they don't feel like it as they are well weighted.


The knobs themselves are metal. The bezels (the thin ridges on the front panel surrounding the knobs) are plastic.

Hey guys, I just picked this DAC up and am currently burning it in. However, the Marantz "clicking" noise is driving me crazy. I noticed others were also complaining about the clicking noise. Every time I start or stop anything with the DAC then there is a loud clicking noise. Is this an inherent trait of the Marantz DAC and there is nothing that can be done about it. I tried adjusting various setting in JRiver but to no avail. Besides the annoying click, I'm definitely enjoying the sound of this DAC.  So far it seems more musical than my previous Sabre 9016 based DAC. Thanks.


Yes, the muting relays click when the digital input signal drops away. I forgot to mention that. Not an issue for me as I tend to play an entire album in one go. It does mean that skipping forward on a CD in the Marantz CD-80 used as a transport is a no-no, it makes the HD-DAC1 click like crazy... (to the point that sometimes it locks and requires a switch back and forth between two inputs). Again, not an issue for me in practice, but I can see it might be annoying if skipping a lot between favorite passages is how you enjoy your music.

Interestingly enough skipping forward on UBS files (playback via USB on the front panel) does not exhibit this behaviour. Skipping to the next or previous file is fine too. Stopping or starting USB play activates the muting relays.

Incidentally, the Marantz SA-11S3 also clicks when starting play, or stopping it. However, the SA-11S3 being pretty much entombed in thick solid slabs of aluminium (aluminum for our friends across the pond) and steel you don't notice it so much...
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 6:28 PM Post #115 of 1,283
 
 
   
Tricka above has more insight than I do but the UD-301 was the one I spent the most time comparing with in-store before I purchased the Marantz. Sonically the 301 is very nice but the two are worlds apart in size, appearance, and build quality.  The Marantz knobs might (?) be plastic but they don't feel like it as they are well weighted. The Teac feels plasticky and light. If I were constrained on space, the Teac would be a good choice, but the Marantz is in another league with the build. And if your headphones aren't the easiest to drive, the Marantz has more guts behind the headphone amp.

 
 
Agree entirely with what thehoff says. If pushed to chose one I would chose the Marantz for the reasons he has given. The Teac, while good, is much more at the budget end of life. 
 
For head fi duties, I have been using some Oppo PM1's (which sound delicious withe the Marantz) and Fischer FA 011's, which I prefer to HD 6xx's. I hope to pick up some HD 800's shortly, after I sell/swap my PM1's.
 
I have yet to plug the Marantz into my stereo system.
 
By way of reference, I feel the Mytek 192 I owned via FW playing pcm & dsd was more revealing, but no question the head stage of the Marantz is rewarding, whereas the head stage of the Mytek was less satisfying. Teac about the same as the Mytek in terms of head stage. Both more "musical" than the Mytek, but the Mytek plays in a  different class for resolution, clarity and transparency. 
 
The knobs themselves are metal. The bezels (the thin ridges on the front panel surrounding the knobs) are plastic.
Yes, the muting relays click when the digital input signal drops away. I forgot to mention that. Not an issue for me as I tend to play an entire album in one go. It does mean that skipping forward on a CD in the Marantz CD-80 used as a transport is a no-no, it makes the HD-DAC1 click like crazy... (to the point that sometimes it locks and requires a switch back and forth between two inputs). Again, not an issue for me in practice, but I can see it might be annoying if skipping a lot between favorite passages is how you enjoy your music.

Interestingly enough skipping forward on UBS files (playback via USB on the front panel) does not exhibit this behaviour. Skipping to the next or previous file is fine too. Stopping or starting USB play activates the muting relays.

Incidentally, the Marantz SA-11S3 also clicks when starting play, or stopping it. However, the SA-11S3 being pretty much entombed in thick solid slabs of aluminium (aluminum for our friends across the pond) and steel you don't notice it so much...

 
As with 2leftears, I listen to an entire album (I listen almost exclusively to classical and jazz), or create a playlist in A+, so once it locks on, that is it. I can see it would become annoying if you stopped and started tracks alot.
 
Pity the SA=11S3 is not as good headphone out as the Dac 1 - I was hoping to pick up a very good 'all in one player head amp' for my father, who is computer illiterate. Any other suggestions?
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 6:40 PM Post #116 of 1,283
  Hey guys, I just picked this DAC up and am currently burning it in. However, the Marantz "clicking" noise is driving me crazy. I noticed others were also complaining about the clicking noise. Every time I start or stop anything with the DAC then there is a loud clicking noise. Is this an inherent trait of the Marantz DAC and there is nothing that can be done about it. I tried adjusting various setting in JRiver but to no avail. Besides the annoying click, I'm definitely enjoying the sound of this DAC.  So far it seems more musical than my previous Sabre 9016 based DAC. Thanks.

 
The clicking is the same on the Marantz as it was with my Bifrost. Don't most others do it as well?  The Oppo for instance?  That was my other choice and I still might order a silver Oppo to compare.
 
Jan 12, 2015 at 8:45 PM Post #117 of 1,283
Great  impressions 2leftears thanks for your feedback, I've been looking at the marantz since release. Now I have no reason not to order it..
 
Jan 13, 2015 at 1:29 AM Post #118 of 1,283
Wait a minute - someone saying that SA-11S3 has lower quality headphone out than HD-DAC1? Really? If so, kind of pity for Marantz! Any other SACD all-in-one Marantz player to compare with HD-DAC1 or the latter one seems to be the best?
 
Jan 13, 2015 at 1:35 AM Post #119 of 1,283
There is the SA8005 - seems to share a similar DAC section to the HD-DAC1 (USB / coax / optical input incl. DSD capability). The headamp section is the "HDAM SA2" - whereas in the SA-11S3 it is the "HDAM". Not sure what the headamp in the HD-DAC1 is though
 
Jan 13, 2015 at 2:05 AM Post #120 of 1,283
   
The clicking is the same on the Marantz as it was with my Bifrost. Don't most others do it as well?  The Oppo for instance?  That was my other choice and I still might order a silver Oppo to compare.

I had a non-DSD DAC using the Sabre ESS9016 that didn't click at all. So, it must be the relay that Marantz or others use. It wouldn't be so bad if I just left my audio program on but it's connected to my pc which I use while working and listening to music. The relay is constantly clicking on and off due to things I'm doing on my pc. Oh well... I do like the sound quality a bit better though so there's the quandary.
 

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