[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem is that when you source from the low-cost provider, low-cost providers are in the business of cutting costs. Sometimes by doing things they didn't mention that they were going to do, sometimes by directly violating the terms of their contract - such as the lead-painted toys last year. The american company not only insisted on lead-free paint, they supplied their chinese manufacturer with lead-free paint and required them to use it. And yet somehow it was not used. It's not because they're chinese that they do these things. I'm certain that you could find an american or german company just as willing to do a bad job for the right money - the chinese are just cheaper.

If there is any consolidation at all, I can tell you the China local businesses are far waste than those which do export business. Not only you can find lead painted toys in many area of China, you practically can buy lead made toys in rural area. The combination of greedy businessman, an up rising market and a under-perform regulatory system does more damage to the Chinese than to other countries. Believe me that they are trying hard to get thing better, but 1.3 billions people isn't an easy crowd to manage.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevil /img/forum/go_quote.gif And all those who do not care where it's made: you also don't care if the people who build your headphone and or mp3-player get paid almost nothing and have to fight to survive, or if it's produced by a couple of kids...??? Just want to know your opinion

I certainly do care!
The employees should be paid respectfully and be treated well, regardless if they work in a Chinese, Japanese, German, ... factory.

 

[Spyro]

I think a big part we are missing is the integrity of the manufacturer. Theoretically, if a product is designed and originally made in USA and later moved to China factory. It is the manufacture's responsibility to make a seamless transition. Components, specs and manufacturing processes "should" meet the original standards to which the product was approved. Hence, if corners are cut, less controls are in place, less inspection, etc., it doesn't matter whether that product is made in USA, China or Bolivia...it will be poor.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif If there is any consolidation at all, I can tell you the China local businesses are far waste than those which do export business. Not only you can find lead painted toys in many area of China, you practically can buy lead made toys in rural area. The combination of greedy businessman, an up rising market and a under-perform regulatory system does more damage to the Chinese than to other countries. Believe me that they are trying hard to get thing better, but 1.3 billions people isn't an easy crowd to manage.

I imagine that it's hard to impress upon a chinese factory owner that he might lose your business, too, since someone else will surely come along.

But the point that i was trying to make was that you're guaranteed to have these kinds of problems with whoever the lowest-cost provider is, no matter what language they speak.

i see the exact same problems with technical outsourcing. cut-rate contractors in india frequently do a poor job and will lie to your face about it, but for the same money you could get a bunch of american college dropouts to do just as poor of a job and tell you just as many lies.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif i see the exact same problems with technical outsourcing. cut-rate contractors in india frequently do a poor job and will lie to your face about it, but for the same money you could get a bunch of american college dropouts to do just as poor of a job and tell you just as many lies.

I feel the pain too. Few years ago I had to call Palm for a hardware problem with my PDA, and my phone call went to an India call center. Long story short, it took me a good whole day and an extra $25 just so I can get the address of the repair center located in U.S.

Cutting cost certainly doesn't help Palm much as the company is still doing bad on business.

 

[SunDevil]

As I read here in this thread, there are many interesting answers and opinions.

I repeat my question to make sure everybody understand it correctly: I wanted to know your opinion about products produced in Asia (not specifically China). Not specifically beyerdynamic products, but just overall any product (mainly headphones since that is the forum we're in here).

The problem I often see is that people do not understand the price of European (US, Japan or any other country where people get paid properly and human rights are ok) made products. Also here in Germany there are many adverts (TV, Internet, Radio etc.) all pushing for cheap products. Everybody wants high quality and pay nothing, which is just not a good combination. Sure for some products it might work, but for many it just doesn't.

A lot of the products produced in Asia could also be produced in Europe (or elsewhere), but they would simply cost a lot more causing customers not to buy them since there will be tons of other companies producing the same sort of products somewhere in Asia for at least 1/10th of the price.

Of course almost any manufacturer of headphones has products produced in Asia (beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, Denon, Sony, JVC etc.), simply because the people want it that way >> they want cheaper products and mostly do not care about the situation in the country where the product is made in. Unfortunately it's not as simple for a manufacturer to not have any products produced in Asia, cause they will loose the market in that price range and with that they will loose a lot of needed turn-over.

But I just wanted your opinions and did not want to create a third world war!

 

[Navyblue]

As for the third world war, I don't see bullets and missiles being fashionable anymore. Today's war is fought with dollars and cents. Invasion is no longer D-day style but a cultural one. Yes, the third world war is happening right now.

 

[stoned22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hxiao /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is that a joke? Dont be so paranoid. Nobody would bother to pre-install virus for you. You dont worth the effort, get it?

actually a few months ago there was a scandal about a batch of china made digital photo frames which came infected with a virus which would spread to the users' computers when they plugged in the photo frame by USB.

Virus from China the gift that keeps on giving

 

[regal]

Hxiao if you think some blackmarket chinese sweatshop is above taking a few thousand dollars from a clandistine hacker you are more naive than I can imagine.

 

[GordonFreeman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I certainly do care! The employees should be paid respectfully and be treated well, regardless if they work in a Chinese, Japanese, German, ... factory.

Yes I do care and I think more of us should care. You ever call customer service for help with an American product and get someone who barely speaks English and is for the most part incapable of helping you with your problem? I would rather have an American performing that service even if he wasn't able to help me. No loyalty is rampant in industry and all it provides is lots of money to stick in someones pocket, someone who will never be satisfied with any amount of money ever. This kind of stick it to the little guy so the fat cat can get TOO rich mentality is rampant in the US and is so bad in China that I would have to categorize anyone who doesn't care as part of the problem. My next purchase will be from Ray Samuels, too bad the US doesn't have more companies like RSA, but I guess people just don't care do they?

 

[Wilson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singapura /img/forum/go_quote.gif Peter, I don't care at all where my headphones are made as long as they sound good and have decent built quality. In fact I find your suggestion that Chinese products are by definition inferior a bit offensive. Don't buy into the US and EU propaganda that everything Chinese is evil or badly made. It's not only price that makes a difference, some of the stuff made in China is actually top notch (the Spark/Cayin HA-1A comes to mind). Off course we get even more exposure to Chinese products in Singapore because it's closer.

Very true.

I agree, today many top notch quality items are make in China. The stigma that Chineses manufacture only lower quality products are inferior is no longer true.

I work in the speech and audio technology integration profession, over the years I see all the brand names in the West do their productions, and more and more the designs, in China. These are highest quality products in top-tier consumer gears.


Cheers,
W