[MorbidToaster]

Are you using it exclusivly for music? Or browsing at the same time?

 

[mackat]

Browsing too. Still have about half my ram left though!


Ben aka MacKat

 

[bixby]

Quote:

Who ever said iTunes does not give a bitperfect audio signal is a liar.
 
I tested it with both iTunes and VLC and both players give a bitperfect signal.
(Volume maxed, no EQ, etc.).
 
Tested with audiolab m-dac's Bitperfect test.
 
Don't buy any of these "audiophile" programs like Amarra.

Old news!
 
Just because a piece of software is bit perfect does not mean what you hear is the same.  

 

[odyssey2001]

This is a thread about iTunes and "Audiophile" programs.
I said iTunes does give a bitperfect signal. Some here in this thread think it doesn't.
 
For sure one can upgrade to a better DAC / AMP but every hardware will get the same bitperfect signal from iTunes.
What the piece of hardware will do with it is it's own decision; You don't have to use an other player than iTunes except you want automatic RAM buffering / Sample rate switching.
 
Quote:

Old news!
 
Just because a piece of software is bit perfect does not mean what you hear is the same.  

 

[AppleheadMay]

Quote:

You select the BitPerfect test in audiolab m-dac's menu.
It asks you to play a file you can download here: http://wikkii.org/wiki/M-DAC
 
I connected the m-dac with some very cheap USB cable to my Mac and launched iTunes, started the BitPerfect test on the m-dac and started playing the test file in iTunes.
The m-dac will show if the signals are bitperfect or not on it's built-in display.
 
I think the m-dac has the same test file on it's firmware and checks if the data from the USB input is equally to the data on the firmware.
 
 
 
Yes, which players should I use?
 
 
 
I could make a video showing the display of the m-dac saying "Accurate data".
 

 
Quite a nice range AudioLab has, I just downloaded their brochure. How's the SQ and sound signature?
Anywhere I can find some pricing info on the 8200 range?
 
No need to make a video, I had no idea what the M-DAC and M-DAC test was, I see what you mean now.
 
Well, for the test, any players you like to and find the time for.
The one's I'm interested in are the ones I have: Amarra, Audirvana and Fidelia which all have free trials.
But the one I'm most interested of seeing the results from is called "BitPerfect" which is very unintrusive and looks like it just changes the sample rate automatically although it might do more than that.
That one isn't free however, it's only available on the App Store and costs 8€. I'd be happy to pay the cost back to you if you send me your PP address via PM.
 
Thanks by the way, very interested to hear what the results of this tests are, that's objective info for once.
 
I do still wonder how one can sound different from the other however, provided they are all bitperfect. Bitperfect should mean no EQ is being used as far as I understand so I wonder what could change the sound. Or it is just our heads messing with us?

 

[odyssey2001]

Fidelia: "Data is accurate" tough BitPerfect.
 
Audirvana: "Data is accurate", BitPerfect.
 
Amarra: "Data is accurate", BitPerfect.
 
I think they all give a BitPerfect signal tough they sound absolutely identical.

 

[bixby]

Quote:

This is a thread about iTunes and "Audiophile" programs.
I said iTunes does give a bitperfect signal. Some here in this thread think it doesn't.
 
For sure one can upgrade to a better DAC / AMP but every hardware will get the same bitperfect signal from iTunes.
What the piece of hardware will do with it is it's own decision; You don't have to use an other player than iTunes except you want automatic RAM buffering / Sample rate switching.
 

You do want to use another piece of software if you want it to sound good 

 

[odyssey2001]

No, if a software (iTunes) gives a bitperfect signal it's the signal identical to the original signal. Then you don't need any software.
 
What you mean is an Equalizer which will modify the signal to make high / low frequencies louder. For some this might sound better, but it's not the "true" sound.
 
Quote:

You do want to use another piece of software if you want it to sound good 

 

[Jmstrmbn]

My understanding is how the data is processed and fed to the DAC after going through a given player changes the sound immensely.  If possible try integer mode with Audirvana and Bitperfect.  This option shortens the signal pathway between the player and the USB output to the DAC and IMO does a lot to improve the sound.

 

[bixby]

Quote:

No, if a software (iTunes) gives a bitperfect signal it's the signal identical to the original signal. Then you don't need any software.
 
What you mean is an Equalizer which will modify the signal to make high / low frequencies louder. For some this might sound better, but it's not the "true" sound.
 

No,  perhaps I can make myself more clear.  To my ears, itunes is a good player, but for critical listening on a good system, I do not use iTunes and prefer to use Audirvana Plus to play my files.  In years past I preferred Pure Music and I know many who prefer Amarra.  No equalizer or any other software added to my player software for me, but I suppose many find that sort of thing helpful in getting the sound quality they like.
 
I just want my files to sound as natural as I think they should sound and itunes does not do it for me, sorry.  I do use it to organize my files, though and things like syncing to my iPod.

 

[odyssey2001]

On my setup (Mac (USB) -> audiolab m-dac -> Headphones) iTunes gives a bitperfect signal.
So there is absolutely no need for a software like Audirvana because iTunes does give a absolutely perfect signal trough USB to the DAC.
This is the most "natural" way you can imagine.
 
Audirvana may sound better to you but that's because it modifies the "most natural" signal and then it is no natural signal anymore.
 

No,  perhaps I can make myself more clear.  To my ears, itunes is a good player, but for critical listening on a good system, I do not use iTunes and prefer to use Audirvana Plus to play my files.  In years past I preferred Pure Music and I know many who prefer Amarra.  No equalizer or any other software added to my player software for me, but I suppose many find that sort of thing helpful in getting the sound quality they like.
 
I just want my files to sound as natural as I think they should sound and itunes does not do it for me, sorry.  I do use it to organize my files, though and things like syncing to my iPod.

 

[bixby]

Quote:

On my setup (Mac (USB) -> audiolab m-dac -> Headphones) iTunes gives a bitperfect signal.
So there is absolutely no need for a software like Audirvana because iTunes does give a absolutely perfect signal trough USB to the DAC.
This is the most "natural" way you can imagine.
 
Audirvana may sound better to you but that's because it modifies the "most natural" signal and then it is no natural signal anymore.
 

As to your first sentence, ok, if you like the sound, I have no problem with that.
 
But as to the rest, I will have to disagree, since iTunes has a few other things going on that can and do impact that natural sound you are talking about.  As for Audirvana modifying the "most natural signal", we will have to disagree, I think they do rather a lot to have it not go through all the processes that iTunes does.  Direct mode is one of them.
 
iTunes - uses the last sample rate of the file played, eg. standard CD res like 16/44 hence when you play the next song which may have be a high res 24/96 one, it uses the old sample rate and down-samples the native rate to 16/44 destroying your bit perfect signal.
 
iTunes - uses a dithered volume control which loses resolution as you change it from anything other than 100% level - no more bit perfect, I'm afraid, you will lose bits if you set it low enough.
 
Additional things that iTunes does that can affect that "bit perfect" signal and make it sound not as good as some other players out there.
 
-Does not load an entire song or many songs into memory for playback and hence reads the data off of a spinning disk with all it's inherent and audible effects on the sound quality.
-Uses Apple's high level framework to process audio with no way to minimize process load which can affect sound quality
-Does not allow for exclusive device access to the audio  processes
 
While the output can still be bit perfect, the sound quality can be impacted greatly when using iTunes vs some of the other players.  And all of the players can benefit from lots of other tuning one can do to a Mac to make it an even better music playing platform.
 
FYI- Ever wonder why lots of audio manufacturers who use Apple computers to play files to demonstrate their fancy equipment at places like Rocky Mountain Audio Fest don't all use iTunes?  Now you do!

 

[Jmstrmbn]

Quote:

As to your first sentence, ok, if you like the sound, I have no problem with that.
 
But as to the rest, I will have to disagree, since iTunes has a few other things going on that can and do impact that natural sound you are talking about.  As for Audirvana modifying the "most natural signal", we will have to disagree, I think they do rather a lot to have it not go through all the processes that iTunes does.  Direct mode is one of them.
 
iTunes - uses the last sample rate of the file played, eg. standard CD res like 16/44 hence when you play the next song which may have be a high res 24/96 one, it uses the old sample rate and down-samples the native rate to 16/44 destroying your bit perfect signal.
 
iTunes - uses a dithered volume control which loses resolution as you change it from anything other than 100% level - no more bit perfect, I'm afraid, you will lose bits if you set it low enough.
 
Additional things that iTunes does that can affect that "bit perfect" signal and make it sound not as good as some other players out there.
 
-Does not load an entire song or many songs into memory for playback and hence reads the data off of a spinning disk with all it's inherent and audible effects on the sound quality.
-Uses Apple's high level framework to process audio with no way to minimize process load which can affect sound quality
-Does not allow for exclusive device access to the audio  processes
 
While the output can still be bit perfect, the sound quality can be impacted greatly when using iTunes vs some of the other players.  And all of the players can benefit form lots of other tuning one can do to a Mac to make it an even better music playing platform.
 
FYI- Ever wonder why lots of audio manufacturers who use Apple computers to play files to demonstrate their fancy equipment at places like Rocky Mountain Audio Fest don't all use iTunes?  Now you do!

Well put, I would agree

 

[odyssey2001]

The points you mentioned may be true. But you can't argue with a better quality through Audirvana as from iTunes because iTunes already delivers a bitperfect signal.
The only thing Audirvana (and all the other apps) do is Sample Rate switching and USB buffering.
 
If you use iTunes at 100% volume all the time, equalizer and other silly things turned off, it delivers a perfect audio signal.
 
Quote:

As to your first sentence, ok, if you like the sound, I have no problem with that.
 
But as to the rest, I will have to disagree, since iTunes has a few other things going on that can and do impact that natural sound you are talking about.  As for Audirvana modifying the "most natural signal", we will have to disagree, I think they do rather a lot to have it not go through all the processes that iTunes does.  Direct mode is one of them.
 
iTunes - uses the last sample rate of the file played, eg. standard CD res like 16/44 hence when you play the next song which may have be a high res 24/96 one, it uses the old sample rate and down-samples the native rate to 16/44 destroying your bit perfect signal.
 
iTunes - uses a dithered volume control which loses resolution as you change it from anything other than 100% level - no more bit perfect, I'm afraid, you will lose bits if you set it low enough.
 
Additional things that iTunes does that can affect that "bit perfect" signal and make it sound not as good as some other players out there.
 
-Does not load an entire song or many songs into memory for playback and hence reads the data off of a spinning disk with all it's inherent and audible effects on the sound quality.
-Uses Apple's high level framework to process audio with no way to minimize process load which can affect sound quality
-Does not allow for exclusive device access to the audio  processes
 
While the output can still be bit perfect, the sound quality can be impacted greatly when using iTunes vs some of the other players.  And all of the players can benefit from lots of other tuning one can do to a Mac to make it an even better music playing platform.
 
FYI- Ever wonder why lots of audio manufacturers who use Apple computers to play files to demonstrate their fancy equipment at places like Rocky Mountain Audio Fest don't all use iTunes?  Now you do!

 

[mackat]

Well, I got 8 extra gigs of memory in my iMac tonight, so I now have 12GB instead of a measly 4GB!
 
I bet it won't skip anymore!