[schuh]

I'm in a quandry.  Should I spend the money and buy the Lyr or go budget for the M-stage?  I have never liked the way my K702s sound driven by my Woo WA6.  Now my Grado 325is have taken over that amp.  I doubt the K702 setup will be my primary setup.  I love the Grados.  One beneift of the M-stage is that it has a USB DAC built in.  Spend a little or spend a lot?  Is the Lyr worth it?  I need some advice.

 

[OldSkool]

I haven't heard the M-Stage, but my recabled K702's sound great thru the Lyr.  Surprisingly, they also sound terrific thru a vintage Marantz receiver.
 
Since you already have a great tube amp (WA6) why don't you check out some vintage solid-state goodness? You might be very surprised, I know I was.

 

[Zulkr9]

If you dont like your K702 I doubt they will change much with those amps to be liked anyway, that aside I also heard that K702 dont like tubes not sure though.

 

[IEMCrazy]

I can't comment on M Stage, but I do really like the Lyr for K702.  I also have a Headroom Micro (Desktop.)  My personal opinion (and I know others that disagree), is that I can't listen to K702 for more than a few minutes on the Headroom.  The famed "plastic" sound becomes apparent to me on it.  On the Lyr they sound very natural and detailed, if a bit thin (but the 702 is, in general, analytically thin, that's the point of them.)
 
 
WA6 is a horrible, horrible choice for K702.   Their power profile much more closely resembles that of planars than most dynamics.  They love the high current of solid state or hybrids versus OTL tube's high voltage, low current.
 
Lyr happns to be high-voltage, high-current as a hybrid, and 702 seems to like that.  Having bought HE-400s (planars) I find it it kind of requiring adjustment to go back to K702, but for a while I found myself listening to 702 more often than HD650. 

 

[derbigpr]

 
Quote:

If you dont like your K702 I doubt they will change much with those amps to be liked anyway, that aside I also heard that K702 dont like tubes not sure though.

 
 
True.  I have Q701, and while they do change their signature a bit depending on amps, they still sound 95% the same from every amp tried,  from Fiio E9, to Little dot Mk5, or Asus Essence ST.
 

 

[IEMCrazy]

 
Quote:

 
 
 
True.  I have Q701, and while they do change their signature a bit depending on amps, they still sound 95% the same from every amp tried,  from Fiio E9, to Little dot Mk5, or Asus Essence ST.
 

 
The difference between the Headroom and Lyr wasn't so much a change sound signature so much as a grating edge was picked up on the Headroom that was absent in the Lyr to a point that I couldn't stand listening to it.  I'm not sure what makes the venerable "plastic" sound, or why it's dependent.  But it seemed obvious that the Headroom seemd to be accenting the leading edge of the FR, rather than the center, which may be common for all-SS amps, and the result was deeply unpleasant to my ears.
 
Then again I haven't really liked any of my headphones on the Headroom compared to Lyr, and the Headroom sounds typically similar to my Denon 2310ci's headphone out.
 
The signature won't change like, say HD650 does, but there's a different tonality to it out of different amps.
 
Still, I agree, if you generally dislike K702, then you generally dislike K702.  It's a love-hate headphone.  But for sheer analytical flatness you won't find anything under $1k to beat it.  It's not my favorite headphone for just listening, but I'd never sell it either.

 

[derbigpr]

 
Quote:

 
 
The difference between the Headroom and Lyr wasn't so much a change sound signature so much as a grating edge was picked up on the Headroom that was absent in the Lyr to a point that I couldn't stand listening to it.  I'm not sure what makes the venerable "plastic" sound, or why it's dependent.  But it seemed obvious that the Headroom seemd to be accenting the leading edge of the FR, rather than the center, which may be common for all-SS amps, and the result was deeply unpleasant to my ears.
 
Then again I haven't really liked any of my headphones on the Headroom compared to Lyr, and the Headroom sounds typically similar to my Denon 2310ci's headphone out.
 
The signature won't change like, say HD650 does, but there's a different tonality to it out of different amps.
 
Still, I agree, if you generally dislike K702, then you generally dislike K702.  It's a love-hate headphone.  But for sheer analytical flatness you won't find anything under $1k to beat it.  It's not my favorite headphone for just listening, but I'd never sell it either.

 
 
 
I find the HD600 to be the perfect headphone for someone who wants flatness and still a good listening experience. Q701's are pretty good as well, but still tend to sound flat and thin sometimes, as well as overly bright or fatiguing. HD600's have the most perfect balance of any headphone I've ever heard, but then again, they have the problem of not doing anything badly, but not doing anything extremely well either.

 

[Mad Max]

Matrix M-Stage.  The low bass will be weak without the stock opamp swapped out for ADA4610-2B, but that's the simplest, easiest tweak.
The M-Stage will make your K702 thunderously roar and rumble to life.  It won't exacerbate the brightness of the headphone either.

 

[schuh]

I would like to keep my K702s.  I actually like the sound signature, especially for jazz.  I just feel that the WA6 struggles to drive them.  I am interested to see what they sound like well driven.  I feel at heart that I love the Grado sound.  They seem settled in as my No.1s.  I'm wondering if it will be worth it to splurge on the Lyr for a change of pace with the 702s.  There have been many good reactions to the 702/M-Stage pairing, but there's some doubt there too.
 
Lots to think about. Thanks for all the great responses.  

 

[IEMCrazy]

 
Quote:

 
 
 
 
I find the HD600 to be the perfect headphone for someone who wants flatness and still a good listening experience. Q701's are pretty good as well, but still tend to sound flat and thin sometimes, as well as overly bright or fatiguing. HD600's have the most perfect balance of any headphone I've ever heard, but then again, they have the problem of not doing anything badly, but not doing anything extremely well either.

 
Well, there's endless debate between HD600 and K70x.  Keep in mind that Q701 is considered warmer and more musical than K702, so if you think the Q's sound flat and thin, you haven't heard flat and thin yet

  I agree with you, the AKGs can be thin and fatiguing with a very sparkly treble.  They also reach down very, very low for an open dynamic.  But they do it all completely flat.  As I said they're a top notch analytical can.  Analytical is not usually associated with "good listening experience" in the same way the Senns or planars are.  But the amount of detail when paired with the right amp is easily the best thing under $1k, excepting maybe HE-500/5LE.  The brain burns into the sound a little and they grow on you the more you use them.
 
Quote:

I would like to keep my K702s.  I actually like the sound signature, especially for jazz.  I just feel that the WA6 struggles to drive them.  I am interested to see what they sound like well driven.  I feel at heart that I love the Grado sound.  They seem settled in as my No.1s.  I'm wondering if it will be worth it to splurge on the Lyr for a change of pace with the 702s.  There have been many good reactions to the 702/M-Stage pairing, but there's some doubt there too.
 
Lots to think about. Thanks for all the great responses.  

 
I was a die-hard HD650 fan for many years, but I grew to prefer jazz, especially live recordings, as well as classical on the K702 much of the time.  And yes, the WA6 would struggle with it, any OTL tube is not going to supply the current needed for low impedance, low sensitivity cans. I find the drive requirements for HE-400 to be very similar to K702.  HE-400 is extremely sensitive for an ortho....which is to say, not very sensitive at all. 
 
I do think the Lyr really opens up the K70x (Jason at Schiit commented in an interview that K701 was one of the headphones used for the tuning of the amp during the design/prototype phase.)  It was designed for orthos and LCD-2 specifically though (which, K70x has similar power profiles to.) K702 is extremely dry, flat, analytical, and with a lot of air, and extreme detail when well amped.  It's not picky about WHAT amp it uses (unlike most Sennheisers), it just likes anything that pumps it full of current and a fair voltage swing to round it out.
 
If you're looking to bring a bit more out of K702, I don't think you'd be disappointed with Lyr and the bit of warmth the tubes add.  But I can't say you wouldn't be pleased wth M Stage  either, since I haven't tried it. 
 
I will say that HE-400 is now my favorite (build fears aside) can for the above genres, but nothing has quite the same signature as K70x, so I wouldn't replace them either.

 

[liamstrain]

 
Quote:

And yes, the WA6 would struggle with it, any OTL tube is not going to supply the current needed for low impedance, low sensitivity cans. I find the drive requirements for HE-400 to be very similar to K702.  HE-400 is extremely sensitive for an ortho....which is to say, not very sensitive at all. 
 
 

 
The WA6 is not an OTL, it has an output transformer and should throw plenty of current at the 702. 
 
Honestly, I do not think that either the m-stage or the Lyr is going to significantly change your experience with these headphones. They should both drive it about the same as the WA6 does.

 

[IEMCrazy]

 
Quote:

 
 
The WA6 is not an OTL, it has an output transformer and should throw plenty of current at the 702. 
 
Honestly, I do not think that either the m-stage or the Lyr is going to significantly change your experience with these headphones. They should both drive it about the same as the WA6 does.

 
WA6 is an OTC? Oops, I always get WA6 and WA3 confused.....they look too similar!
 
Hmm, you may be right if that's the case.  I'm not sure how comparisons between hybrids and OTC tubes usually go.

 

[Mad Max]

 
Quote:

I would like to keep my K702s.  I actually like the sound signature, especially for jazz.  I just feel that the WA6 struggles to drive them.  I am interested to see what they sound like well driven.  I feel at heart that I love the Grado sound.  They seem settled in as my No.1s.  I'm wondering if it will be worth it to splurge on the Lyr for a change of pace with the 702s.  There have been many good reactions to the 702/M-Stage pairing, but there's some doubt there too.
 
Lots to think about. Thanks for all the great responses.  

You won't know until you try. 

 
WA6?  Maybe you can go for a used GS-1 instead of the M-Stage.

 

[liamstrain]

 
Quote:

 

You won't know until you try. 

 
WA6?  Maybe you can go for a used GS-1 instead of the M-Stage.

 
Or get any number of the Dynalo amps - e.g. the Sheer Audio HA-006+ - same circuit as the GS-1, but much less expensive.