Lyr 3 - The new Coherence™ and Continuity™ hybrid amplifier from Schiit - Impression & discussion thread

[Shane D]

I owned a Lyr 3 and used it with a variety of tubes until recently. I sold it because once the Lyr 3 dragged me into tube-land, which I had resisted for a long time, I fell in head first and ended up going from Lyr 3 to very well-regarded but discontinued amps, first the Apex Peak (another 6SN7 hybrid, less powerful than the Lyr 3 but a step up with the headphones I own) and eventually an Eddie Current Aficionado, which is my current favorite amp with ZMF Verité headphones. Apex Peak and EC Aficionado, even well used (both had several previous careful owners) are way more expensive than the Lyr 3 new. They are better to my ears, but if I had not gone down the tube rabbit hole I'd be quite happy with the Lyr 3. The Lyr 3 is (to my ears) a big step up from Schiit solid state amps I've used (Asgard 2, Jotunheim), Cavalli Liquid Carbon, and also a step up from the Neurochrome HP-1 I have at work (I kept it rather than the Lyr 3 because I wanted to have at work something I can turn on and off at will, leave on long periods unattended, etc). The only solid-state amp I've heard that (IMO) bests the Lyr 3 is the SPL Phonitor XE I have at home, which costs 3.5x as much. Summary: Asgard 2 < Cavalli Liquid Carbon < Jotunheim < Neurochrome HP-1 < Lyr 3 < Apex Peak < Phonitor XE < EC Aficionado, tested with MrSpeakers Ether C Flow, MrSpeakers Æon Closed, and ZMF Verité silkwood. There's quite a bit of variation between these but even the Aficionado is not that tube-y with the tubes I have on it. Lyr 3 with a nice NOS tube (such as Westinghouse Reliatron "D-getter," Ken-Rad VT23, ...) is just that tad warm but not bloomy at all, punchy solid bass, detailed mids, crisp highs. For calibration, I listen mostly to modern jazz and various kinds of solo and orchestral classical music (From my Roon "most played: András Schiff's Bach Das wohltemperierte Clavier, Vijay Iyer Trio's Accelerando, Nels Cline's Lovers, Charlie Haden/John Taylor's Nightfall, Bill Frisell/Thomas Morgan Small Town, Romina Basso's Voces de Sefarad, Wolfgang Muthspiel's Rising Grace, Aaron Park's Little Big).

Wow, that is one king size reply!

Thanks for the feedback. I have no doubt that the Lyr 3 sounds great, I just have to figure out/guess if it is a sound that I like.

Speaking of Jazz, do you subscribe to Jazziz? I just got my quarterly issue with CD's featuring a WIDE selection of music. Very cool and Very interesting.

Shane D

 

[Shane D]

The cheap Chinese amps are just that. 'Nuff said. If you want to get a good hybrid amp to test the tube waters, you might consider the Vali 2. It puts out a full watt into 32 ohms, and if your phones are very sensitive (efficiency is used interchangeably a lot, but it's a different thing) that will be plenty of power. Big difference in price from the Lyr 3, but don't let the Vali 2's much lower price dissuade you - it's a killer amp in its own right.

I am going to give your advice a shot. I think I have an agreement in place and will close in the morning, if everything goes right.

I will be the 3rd owner of a Vali 2 with a Telefunken tube. It will cost me 1/4 of the price of a new B unit Lyr 3 from Schiit.

Looking forward to trying it out.

Shane D

 

[JamminVMI]

Way more power than I would ever need as I don't listen loud and my 'phones are very efficient.

Just looking for a different sound. I tried to dip my toe into the "tube hybrid" world with the Loxjie P20 and was very disappointed. The P20 with Russian tubes cost me about $175.00.
The Lyr 3, with a few tubes, will run me about $700.00 to $750.00, landed (Canada).

Worth it for a fresh sound. A LOT of money for a subtle difference from SS.

Shane D

Agree completely! The tube hybrid offers you options to tailor the sound a bit to your tastes by rolling tubes (which can, as many have pointed out, can be a financial rabbit hole). But Lyr has a boatload of power (which has been pointed out), and I use mine with IEMs and headphones alike. Frankly, it’s the best headphone amp I’ve heard (at least to my taste). Right now it’s got a baldwin-labeled sylvania in it, and it’s driving Hifiman Sundara, which take more power than I thought they would. But there’s nothing wrong with either of the stock tubes, they’re just different.

Enjoy!

 

[JamminVMI]

Thanks for the clarification.
Cost is always an issue, but you gotta pay to play.

Well I am up to about page 104 in this thread. And then there is another long thread on the site that is not to named.

I am surprised about the lack of reviews for this amp. It has been out for a year and a half.

Shane D

I know I'm not helping here, but although I love the Lyr 3, which has pride of place in my main listening area, my desk has a smaller Schiit stack, topped vy Vali 2. Couldn’t be happier!

 

[Shane D]

I know I'm not helping here, but although I love the Lyr 3, which has pride of place in my main listening area, my desk has a smaller Schiit stack, topped vy Vali 2. Couldn’t be happier!

I just this minute closed a deal on a used Vali 2. I will try it for a month or two and see if I like it. If I end up really liking it, I will probably go after a Lyr 3. Today I bought some Beautiful pads for my Grado's and a used Vali 2. Next month is the Monoprice THX AAA 887. And then I will decide in the new year if I really am a tube guy.

Shane D

 

[koover]

Or a pre-'57 Foton 6N8S.

Can’t seem to find a pre 57, only double triode 1958 and everything else in the 60’s.
Are the 1958’s worth going after?

 

[Shane D]

Well, I finally finished reading the whole thread! Wow. And then I ended up buying a used Vali 2 , that I hopefully have for the weekend.

I read head-fi a lot. I mean a Lot. Whenever anything catches my attention (mostly headphones and amps), I immediately look it up on head-fi and read the product thread. They are often hundreds of pages and I love to learn about the item from afar. I mention all this for one reason. While I have read about dozens of headphone amps over the years, the Schiit models are the only ones that where I read about headphones being destroyed by an amp. Most fans brush it off as a freak occurance and say that it happens so rarely that it is not worth talking about.
Granted I have not read hundreds of amp threads, and very few tube threads, but why does the headphone killer talk always arise at some point in a Schiit amp thread?
Is this just a case of mistakes being made in the early going (2010) and haunting the company a decade later?

Thanks for any explanations.

Shane D

 

[koover]

Well, I finally finished reading the whole thread! Wow. And then I ended up buying a used Vali 2 , that I hopefully have for the weekend.

I read head-fi a lot. I mean a Lot. Whenever anything catches my attention (mostly headphones and amps), I immediately look it up on head-fi and read the product thread. They are often hundreds of pages and I love to learn about the item from afar. I mention all this for one reason. While I have read about dozens of headphone amps over the years, the Schiit models are the only ones that where I read about headphones being destroyed by an amp. Most fans brush it off as a freak occurance and say that it happens so rarely that it is not worth talking about.
Granted I have not read hundreds of amp threads, and very few tube threads, but why does the headphone killer talk always arise at some point in a Schiit amp thread?
Is this just a case of mistakes being made in the early going (2010) and haunting the company a decade later?

Thanks for any explanations.

Shane D

Incredibly interesting post. As much as I read Head-fi, I don't remember reading about this. What's funny, I rarely read the Schiit owners unite thread which I probably should. I pretty much read the entire MJ2 and Gumby threads when i bought them respectively, but it's been a while so my memory doesn't serve me like it did when I was younger and that was a damn long time ago. Sucks getting older man! I'm a believer in their products because IMHO you get the best bang for the buck when it comes to quality/performance versus price. I also owned the Modi, Magni, LYR 2 an d probabley other stuff that I just can't remember this second but I've never had an issue with any of their gear. Not a peep!

The reason I even posted this is because I just got my hands on a LYR 3 this weekend and I'm so lovin it. I can't believe at this point that I like it a LOT more then my MJ2 and it's not even close to being burned in. Maybe 15 hours? I actually won it in a raffle at our meet this past Saturday in Phoenix. Talk about lucky. Wasn't sure if I really wanted it because of the MJ2 and the 75 pairs of tubes that I have. I'm so glad I did win it because I can't get enough of it. Can't wait to hear it when it's fully charged and gassed up.

I'm also using some tube one of the guys at the meet was kind enough to give me along with a boatload of others. He told me it's supposed to be a 6SN7 holy grail and at this point, it sounds so much better then anything I every rolled in the MJ2 and I have some solid tubes. I just won't take it out to take a pic so maybe someone can tell me what the heck it is. It's just that good and it's staying in until I decide I want to roll one of the other 50 or so tubes my friend gave me to audition out.

 

[Strat1117]

I’ve been running HD600s off an original Lyr for as long as I can remember without a single hiccup, and I take no special precaution to unplug the headphones before power up/power down. I think the accusation that Schiit amps are at fault is a bunch of self serving hogwash, like the old ladies who claim brake failure when they accidentally hit the gas and drive through the front window at the 7-11. And small tubes like these don’t die catastrophically like a power pentode - they just start to fizzle and pop. They’d never destroy a pair of headphones upon death. Maybe 6sn7s are different than e88ccs in that regard, but I don’t think so.

EDIT: I understand now that the muting relay which my unit has was added after owners of some early units experienced problems, but that the modification was offered free of charge to all owners and incorporated into the design going forward, so kudos and Schiit.

 

[porchwizard]

While I have read about dozens of headphone amps over the years, the Schiit models are the only ones that where I read about headphones being destroyed by an amp. Most fans brush it off as a freak occurance and say that it happens so rarely that it is not worth talking about.

You are making a very negative reference without citations, such that it can neither be refuted, confirmed, investigated, evaluated, or analyzed. If you can dig up some of those references and post them it would be very helpful in establishing veracity and relevance.

There were some incidents of large headphone diaphragm excursions that led to Schiit adding a muting relay. I don't remember (and I haven't tried to find) the details about which amp (but it's in one of @Jason Stoddard 's chapters). I'm thinking it was an Asgard. I don't believe any headphones were harmed in that incident but the behavior of the amp was bad enough to warrant a fix.

You have to be careful about perpetuating myths and rumors or generalizing from specific incidents.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Well, I finally finished reading the whole thread! Wow. And then I ended up buying a used Vali 2 , that I hopefully have for the weekend.

I read head-fi a lot. I mean a Lot. Whenever anything catches my attention (mostly headphones and amps), I immediately look it up on head-fi and read the product thread. They are often hundreds of pages and I love to learn about the item from afar. I mention all this for one reason. While I have read about dozens of headphone amps over the years, the Schiit models are the only ones that where I read about headphones being destroyed by an amp. Most fans brush it off as a freak occurance and say that it happens so rarely that it is not worth talking about.
Granted I have not read hundreds of amp threads, and very few tube threads, but why does the headphone killer talk always arise at some point in a Schiit amp thread?
Is this just a case of mistakes being made in the early going (2010) and haunting the company a decade later?

Thanks for any explanations.

Shane D

Incredibly interesting post. As much as I read Head-fi, I don't remember reading about this. What's funny, I rarely read the Schiit owners unite thread which I probably should. I pretty much read the entire MJ2 and Gumby threads when i bought them respectively, but it's been a while so my memory doesn't serve me like it did when I was younger and that was a damn long time ago. Sucks getting older man! I'm a believer in their products because IMHO you get the best bang for the buck when it comes to quality/performance versus price. I also owned the Modi, Magni, LYR 2 an d probabley other stuff that I just can't remember this second but I've never had an issue with any of their gear. Not a peep!

The reason I even posted this is because I just got my hands on a LYR 3 this weekend and I'm so lovin it. I can't believe at this point that I like it a LOT more then my MJ2 and it's not even close to being burned in. Maybe 15 hours? I actually won it in a raffle at our meet this past Saturday in Phoenix. Talk about lucky. Wasn't sure if I really wanted it because of the MJ2 and the 75 pairs of tubes that I have. I'm so glad I did win it because I can't get enough of it. Can't wait to hear it when it's fully charged and gassed up.

I'm also using some tube one of the guys at the meet was kind enough to give me along with a boatload of others. He told me it's supposed to be a 6SN7 holy grail and at this point, it sounds so much better then anything I every rolled in the MJ2 and I have some solid tubes. I just won't take it out to take a pic so maybe someone can tell me what the heck it is. It's just that good and it's staying in until I decide I want to roll one of the other 50 or so tubes my friend gave me to audition out.

Some answers on this:

1. Yes, we made some mistakes, back in the original "garage era" days. The original run of Lyrs (1) in 2011 did not have any protection relay in them, and killed some headphones. Some early runs of Asgard also didn't have a protection relay, but we don't know of any actual headphone fails caused by Asgard. We have made all of those customers whole as far as I know, plus we recalled both Lyr and Asgard for relay installs, plus we have a policy that continues to this day that we'll add a relay to any amp we missed (because products were resold, etc) at no charge.

2. Since then, pretty much everything has had a protection relay, and the higher-power amps have had DC sense and protect that lifts the output in case of any fault. Both Mjolnir 2 and Lyr 3 have a protection relay and DC sense and protect. Now, that said, protection can fail and unexpected things can happen. If you still have headphone-damaging problems with any of our amps, of course we'll take care of you, and make sure you get a properly working amp and headphones repaired at no cost...or a full refund if you want to look at something else.

3. We've been in business for 9.5 years and have literally shipped hundreds of thousands of products. Despite this, our service load is relatively small--as in, we only need one full-time technician, including fixing products that fail internally on the burn rack. This speaks to the inherent reliability of our products. If that is not your experience, I apologize, but I urge you to contact us and give us a chance to make it good.

I hope that clears things up.

 

[Ripper2860]

Quite a few Audio Science Review members frequently call Schiit HP amps 'headphone killers', but then again they bash practically all things Schiit -- HP amps and DACs. I think they are secretly jealous of the product's fan base and the resale value it holds in comparison to other products. Don't get me wrong -- there's some good info at ASR, but you have to learn to ignore the Schiit-bashing which is quite prevalent.

The instance posted by Porchwizard is correct and I too do not recall an actual failure -- only that it MIGHT lead to HP damage. And as stated, it was addressed by Schiit via muting relay at power-on. We have had 2-3 users here at HF report losing a HP when using them with Lyr 3 (in this thread, I believe). I believe 2 of them were a result of a component failure and 1 of the 3 may have been related to power issues. I almost lost a HP but was there to unplug it after a left servo and resistor failed in my Lyr 3. My experience and those other 3 reported were early on and I've not heard or read anything about failures and HP damage since. I love my Lyr 3 and would not trade it for anything (except maybe a Lyr 4)!!

Personally -- I'd take the reporting of Schiit having extreme QC issues or that Schiit amps put everyone's HPs at risk as a campaign mounted by the uneducated parroting a few folks with an ax to grind.


Ooops. I see that @Jason Stoddard posted while I was typing ...

 

[441879]

The Lyr3 has a loyal fan base because it’s an amazing sounding amp, but if it wasn’t reasonably reliable and safe for headphones, nobody sane would be risking $1500 headphones on it.

My first Lyr3 shorted out in a puff of smoke while my headphones were plugged in. I was a little worried because I’d seen the odd comment referring to Schiits as headphone killers. The phones and the tube were fine though and Schiit replaced the amp. I haven’t worried since.

 

[cebuboy]

I already posted this here before, my Lyr 3 blew out the right driver of my HD650. Cause was a faulty tube. Replaced the tube and the amp was fine.

 

[Shane D]

Some answers on this:

1. Yes, we made some mistakes, back in the original "garage era" days. The original run of Lyrs (1) in 2011 did not have any protection relay in them, and killed some headphones. Some early runs of Asgard also didn't have a protection relay, but we don't know of any actual headphone fails caused by Asgard. We have made all of those customers whole as far as I know, plus we recalled both Lyr and Asgard for relay installs, plus we have a policy that continues to this day that we'll add a relay to any amp we missed (because products were resold, etc) at no charge.

2. Since then, pretty much everything has had a protection relay, and the higher-power amps have had DC sense and protect that lifts the output in case of any fault. Both Mjolnir 2 and Lyr 3 have a protection relay and DC sense and protect. Now, that said, protection can fail and unexpected things can happen. If you still have headphone-damaging problems with any of our amps, of course we'll take care of you, and make sure you get a properly working amp and headphones repaired at no cost...or a full refund if you want to look at something else.

3. We've been in business for 9.5 years and have literally shipped hundreds of thousands of products. Despite this, our service load is relatively small--as in, we only need one full-time technician, including fixing products that fail internally on the burn rack. This speaks to the inherent reliability of our products. If that is not your experience, I apologize, but I urge you to contact us and give us a chance to make it good.

I hope that clears things up.

It does. Thank you for the reply.

Shane D