[Mlaihk]

Because someone did it a long time ago and got away with it (*looking at you, Shure), thus it becomes obvious to the others that they can (and have) get away as well.

Let's take another atrocity that Shure did as an example - they introduced MMCX (which originally designed for high frequency radio communication equipment and antenna connection and has only a rated 500 mating cycle lifespan though often fail much early for IEM because radio equipments don't require the connector to rotate much) as an IEM connector over an decade ago (*you can read my 2011 review of SE215 about the MMCX issue even back then). Plenty of Shure MMCX early failure were reported due to MMCX poor tolerance yet Shure IEM were popular enough that many other IEM makers followed their footsteps thus MMCX becomes one of the standard for IEM connectors. It would take the Chinese IEM maker almost 7~8 yrs to come up with the expended MMCX male plug and protected MMCX female socket to finally remedy the issue (*FiiO being one of the very first, IIRC). Can you imagine how many pair of IEM were throw away or returned for warranty due to bad MMCX between all those time? I actually once overheard a conversation between a major Shure retailer complaining to a Shure local official rep. about the really bad return rate of their IEM all because of failed MMCX connection. It was bad enough that the local rep. needed to come to the retailer shop every week to pick up customer failed IEM and delivery IEM that came back from service. Yet Shure never did stop using MMCX, nor are many other IEM makers. Why? Because Shure did get away with it economy wise and so were others. Good thing is that there are still plenty other IEM makers that choose to stay away from MMCX. It shows that bad engineering is not a deterrent for business as long as it can still make money.

I see. Learn something new everyday. Thanks for the viewpoint!

 

[Mlaihk]

Just got myself a pair of the new 64 Audio Nio Galaxy. And even though it is a 6ohm hybrid IEM, it has 64Audio's LID technology which moderate the impedance FR for the IEM. And they worked beautifully with the W4 4.4 balance. So it is really the pairing of the Campfire Audio crossover-less multi-driver with the W4 issue.

 

[BlueEmperor]

I think there might be some over-blown assumption that 3 ohms output impedance is like the end of the world. It really isn't.

Yes, you are certainly right; in most cases, it shouldn't be much of an issue, unless you buy W4 to use it with your 15 ohm tribrid. It simply sounds really bad, much worse than W2.

So while 3 ohm OI is not the end of the world, it's a deal breaker for some people—at least it was for me. That's why I'm staying with my W2 for now.

Do you even own W4?

I borrowed it from my friend to see if it was an upgrade from W2. I immediately noticed lackluster sound quality in bass frequencies and a somewhat shouty character, common symptoms of a low damping factor in my experience, so I looked for information on its output impedance, and look at that, it's 3 ohm, makes sense.

 

[ClieOS]

Yes, you are certainly right; in most cases, it shouldn't be much of an issue, unless you buy W4 to use it with your 15 ohm tribrid. It simply sounds really bad, much worse than W2.

So while 3 ohm OI is not the end of the world, it's a deal breaker for some people—at least it was for me. That's why I'm staying with my W2 for now.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess. I am on the other hand perfectly fine with W4 and haven't really touched my W2 / W2-131 for a while.

 

[musicday]

The W4 sounds way better then W2. At least 10% in every department to my ears.

 

[rlw6534]

The W4 sounds way better then W2. At least 10% in every department to my ears.

As much as I love this hobby, these are the type of comments that make me cringe...

 

[Mlaihk]

As much as I love this hobby, these are the type of comments that make me cringe...

The W4 can sound great when paired right, same as most of headfi gears, coupled with individual preference of course. And that's why it is important to really understand the idiosyncrasies with the W4 and it's synergy with the source and headphone/earphones/iems.

I know that the W4 does not pair well with the Campfire Audio gears especially in 4.4 balanced. But sounds great with the 64Audio iems equipped with LID.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

As much as I love this hobby, these are the type of comments that make me cringe...

Dramatic overreactions resulting in unfriendly replies that offer only condescending negativity, ill-will, and little helpful input to the topic at hand make everyone cringe...

Not fun to be on the receiving end is it?

@musicday has every right to share their opinion and experience and it is most welcome as they have been a long standing active Head-Fi member whom have been super helpful and have had many very interesting and enlightening posts over the years. @musicday is a not a child for you to talk down to, or to reprimand, nor to belittle just because you are in a disagreeable, intolerant mood.

Don't like the post? Ignore it... though for someone who loves the hobby wouldn't they be more friendly and willing to share-in other people's perspectives and opinions, no?

Don't agree with what has been said? Politely and logically counter-argue, but flippant remarks are absolutely trash and serve no purpose but to incite an argument and for what reason/purpose?

Be a good person, be civil and apologize.

The W4 sounds way better then W2. At least 10% in every department to my ears.

Thank you for sharing. I just listened to and compared an early version W2 with the lower tiered W4EX. Although it was a tad difficult to volume match them (initially I thought the W4EX had a lower bass response... it doesn't I was just being silly), once I figured it out I found that I preferred the W4EX's more open presentation and slightly more forward signature. Though they are very similar sounding in many aspects there is definitely a difference in presentation so I can understand your offering a 10% improvement. Perhaps it is more like 6.789% . I hope to audition the higher tiered W4 version in the coming days along with the Cayin RU6/RU7and Questyle M15... I have heard many good things about the RU7 and M15 so I am looking forward to hearing them.

 

[rlw6534]

Dramatic overreactions resulting in unfriendly replies that offer only condescending negativity, ill-will, and little helpful input to the topic at hand make everyone cringe...

Not fun to be on the receiving end is it?

@musicday has every right to share their opinion and experience and it is most welcome as they have been a long standing active Head-Fi member whom have been super helpful and have had many very interesting and enlightening posts over the years. @musicday is a not a child for you to talk down to, or to reprimand, nor to belittle just because you are in a disagreeable, intolerant mood.

Don't like the post? Ignore it... though for someone who loves the hobby wouldn't they be more friendly and willing to share-in other people's perspectives and opinions, no?

Don't agree with what has been said? Politely and logically counter-argue, but flippant remarks are absolutely trash and serve no purpose but to incite an argument and for what reason/purpose?

Be a good person, be civil and apologize.

Not my intent at all. There is a reason for the emoji at the end of my post...

 

[Andrew_WOT]

To me W4 did not sound just like better W2, tuning seems quite different, W4 silky smooth, analogue like, when W2 (only in comparison) more analytical and digital with harsher treble.

 

[BlueEmperor]

Weird time to be a audio hobbyst... like everyone either just ignores context, misses the point on purpose or fixates on uninportant specs (s/n, thd) and ignores important ones like output impedance, well such is the state of the hobby now I guess.

Anyway, if I were to rate W4's sound quality, it would be 9.6/10 on anything >40 ohm and 2/10 on my Andromeda, Ara, Variations, and Solis II. Hopefully, a lower OI version will be released in the future.

 

[Neweymatt]

I know that the W4 does not pair well with the Campfire Audio gears especially in 4.4 balanced. But sounds great with the 64Audio iems equipped with LID.

Anyway, if I were to rate W4's sound quality, it would be 9.6/10 on anything >40 ohm and 2/10 on my Andromeda, Ara, Variations, and Solis II. Hopefully, a lower OI version will be released in the future.

As I mentioned a couple pages ago, I'll offer a counter-impression on the W4 balanced with Andro2020. Despite my bass-head tendencies, I quite enjoyed the pairing for a lighter, brighter sort of listen, and I thought it worked very well with folk/acoustic/instrumental, and some classical. Resolution is top-notch, and I got a strong sense of space around music that is more sparse in nature.

I'd probably choose a different source for EDM, rap or other bass-heavy genres, and for that matter I might choose a different IEM than Andro2020.
But I thought the W4, even with it's higher OI balanced was a great listen with the Andro2020. YMMV of course..

 

[ClieOS]

Remind me of another gear (which shall remain nameless) - a few very highly praised impression/review on it were released, some by highly regarded reviewers. I listened to it and immediately noticed the frequency response of my dual drivers IEM was completely wrong / altered. I took a measurement and confirmed that it was due to an output impedance of 20 ohms messing up the IEM crossover (and the manufacturer's reps actual denied it at first, then turns silence after he can't proof otherwise). While 20 ohms are much more unforgivable than 3 ohms, the part that shock me most is those reviewers who tested the gear with multi-drivers IEM all described how great their IEM sounded with that piece of gear, even though we all clearly know their IEM must sounded very differently than what would have considered to be normal.

 

[musicday]

Anyone using W4 with quality closed back headphones such as : D9200, W900, TH900 MK2, W5000? Looking for good closed headphones that will work well with this dongle. Thanks

 

[povidlo]

Remind me of another gear (which shall remain nameless) - a few very highly praised impression/review on it were released, some by highly regarded reviewers. I listened to it and immediately noticed the frequency response of my dual drivers IEM was completely wrong / altered. I took a measurement and confirmed that it was due to an output impedance of 20 ohms messing up the IEM crossover (and the manufacturer's reps actual denied it at first, then turns silence after he can't proof otherwise). While 20 ohms are much more unforgivable than 3 ohms, the part that shock me most is those reviewers who tested the gear with multi-drivers IEM all described how great their IEM sounded with that piece of gear, even though we all clearly know their IEM must sounded very differently than what would have considered to be normal.

Thanks for keeping everyone honest, master. I think you might be referring to ibasso bt adapters. Anyhow, maybe that's why some like sources with high impedance because they make their hybrids sounds different? Just a thought. For example, there's a user on this forum who loves using their 5ohm ath-iex1 with their portable tube amp that has 10 ohm output impedance. Different strokes for different folks.