[mulveling]

Quote:

I have been listening to a pair of Bose active desktop speakers having their way with a pair of T-1s on a good headphone amp last week. Speakers are a superior device that you need to spend a grand or more on a reference set of cans to come close. I have been listening to headphones exclusively for too long. So yesterday I installed the DAC in the speaker riq.....oops. I need to listen to my speakers more often.

I certainly wouldn't go that far. Not too many speakers I'd be happy with long-term.
 
I'd be happier with my dinky little HD650 and PPA setup versus many 2ch setups; it's coherent, has good tonal balance, good extension and reasonable detail. They significantly enhance my enjoyment of music versus non-hifi gear. Speakers with poor bass extension, low efficiency, a bright or strident tone, or lots of drivers -- any of these a good clue I won't dig them (i.e. most of them). Of course, a bad room makes it all worse. On the other hand, a great speaker setup will reach heights that headphones can never touch. A good speaker setup will clobber the best headphone setups in most aspects. But then, there's lots of hi-fi speaker setups that I just don't like at all. 

 

[Happy Camper]

I certainly wouldn't go that far. Not too many speakers I'd be happy with long-term.

I'd be happier with my dinky little HD650 and PPA setup versus many 2ch setups; it's coherent, has good tonal balance, good extension and reasonable detail. They significantly enhance my enjoyment of music versus non-hifi gear. Speakers with poor bass extension, low efficiency, a bright or strident tone, or lots of drivers -- any of these a good clue I won't dig them (i.e. most of them). Of course, a bad room makes it all worse. On the other hand, a great speaker setup will reach heights that headphones can never touch. A good speaker setup will clobber the best headphone setups in most aspects. But then, there's lots of hi-fi speaker setups that I just don't like at all. 

It was intended to be a bit tongue in cheek but the little Bose did sound better in that environment for short term listening. For a permanent replacement, no. But firing up the main speaker rig at home made me sad for the compromise that is headphones, though once snuggled under the HE-6s, I will once again be reminded how different and equally enjoyable the headphone experience is.

 

[Quest88]

Just some thoughts that pop up in my head when I read this:
 
Headphones:
- coherency and equal freq response are easily obtainable
- easier to tune to get the sound you like, or an acceptable sound as less variables
- easier to achieve a engaging sound with good performance at significantly lower cost
- weakness is the limitation of the headphone format which cannot give you a sense of realism that speakers can, though it can connect you to the music
- potential discomfort listening long hours with something over your head/ears
 
Speakers:
- much much more expensive to achieve same results. the multiple is crazy if you add the cost of the room.
- much more sensitive setup and harder to control the results due to the variables.. sound can change drastically with very minor changes (e.g. putting a empty glass in the hifi room, sofa touching the wall, etc)
- positive is that when done right, you can 'feel' physical height, depth and accurate tracking (if people were walking up/down) to a much greater extent. you can also obtain a sense of the physical proportion of the instruments (e.g. size of a cello vs a grand piano vs violin) and the dimensions of the actual stage/room. scale is huge and not restrained by boundaries.
- hence, you can physically feel like you are at the venue and the performer(s) are standing infront of you. sound is also perceived by the body (not just the ears) which adds to realism.
 
Just my 2 cents.

A poorly set up $100k speaker rig is worse than a well set up $10k speaker rig.. I've heard many systems that are worse than my ipod with stock earphones in my lifetime. And even a nicely set up $30k speaker rig can be beaten by a well set up $5k stax setup in terms of expression and emotion (other things aside).

 

[YtseJamer]

Hmm, those werent even on the radar the only other speakers i had been considering were with the Salk Songbirds(the only salks cheap enough) or like maggie 1.7s, but im not sure i have the space for the maggies. After all ive read about the Evolution Acoustics MMMicroOne im really excited to be able to go listen to them. Just finished setting up a in house audition a little further up in ohio from me

You should add the Totem Forest to your list

I listened the new Soilwork on my speakers this morning and the experience was so much better compared to my LCD-3.

 

[s4s4s4]

Currently using Focal Utopia Scala, Audeze LCD-2's, and HD800's. Speakers all the way, love the sound in front of me rather in my head. 

 

[SoupRKnowva]

Quote:

You should add the Totem Forest to your list

I listened the new Soilwork on my speakers this morning and the experience was so much better compared to my LCD-3.

 
Hmm, im not doubting what you're saying, but looking at whats been written about them online there just isnt much thats exciting me to go hunt a pair down to hear. The closest dealer is pretty far away.
 
It just makes me sad that ill probably never get to hear the MMMicroOnes, the songtowers, and one of the fritz designs all in the same room back to back. Listening weeks apart makes it hard.
 
I did get to go listen to the MicroOnes, at a gentlemens house on thursday, and they were amazing. they didnt give all that much up to their bigger brother, the MM3, though obviously the bass didnt go as deep. The MicroOnes were absurdly dynamic and fast. they also threw an amazing soundstage.
 
Why is picking speakers so hard...there are entirely too many good speakers out there is the problem
 
EDIT: im pretty sure that i will end up with the EA MMMicroOnes...but now i have to pick a freaking amp...this will be nearly as hard. i think the Audio-GD Master 3 is leading the pack for me right now though...

 

[YtseJamer]

Quote:

 
Hmm, im not doubting what you're saying, but looking at whats been written about them online there just isnt much thats exciting me to go hunt a pair down to hear. The closest dealer is pretty far away.
 
It just makes me sad that ill probably never get to hear the MMMicroOnes, the songtowers, and one of the fritz designs all in the same room back to back. Listening weeks apart makes it hard.
 
I did get to go listen to the MicroOnes, at a gentlemens house on thursday, and they were amazing. they didnt give all that much up to their bigger brother, the MM3, though obviously the bass didnt go as deep. The MicroOnes were absurdly dynamic and fast. they also threw an amazing soundstage.
 
Why is picking speakers so hard...there are entirely too many good speakers out there is the problem
 
EDIT: im pretty sure that i will end up with the EA MMMicroOnes...but now i have to pick a freaking amp...this will be nearly as hard. i think the Audio-GD Master 3 is leading the pack for me right now though...
 

 
They look great!
 
For your amplifier, you should also take a look at Bryston and Exposure.  (I'm driving my Forest with the Exposure 3010S2.)

 

[JamesHuntington]

Speakers give a room ambiance and headphone listening is more constricting. No i don't feel like I hear as much detail when listening to speakers, but in a chill out situation nice speakers work awesome. I'm thinking loudspeakers like my Pinnacles that crank out killer bass for a 5.5 inch speaker or my Rectilinear Mini III which fill the room with sweetness. I think bookshelf speakers are the easiest to set up for the beginner. Some high-end bookshelf speakers are the most forgiving for smaller wattage and space. Knowing how far to separate the speakers from each other and a solid bookshelf or base is enough to get some clean sound that won't overpower or disappoint your ears. Non-bookshelf speakers take room size and placement knowledge that isn't easy for most people.
The best sounding systems I've heard were just two 2-way speakers hooked up to amps with a little more power than the speakers need. The point is to power them competently and not to blow them, so newer turn them up too high. I know that under-powering a speaker can damage it too after some time. The worst sounding systems I've heard had a woofer box and little surround sound tweeter-size things all over the room. I put headphones somewhere in-between the two of those sound system options.     

 

[shuke]

Don't think headphones will ever be able to outdo speakers.

 

[proton007]

I think they both fill a need.
 
However, a headphone is a safer bet 99% of the time. No one can ask you to shut down your headphones because of vibrations. They'll offer good detail for less, need lesser equipment to power them, and easier to carry around.

 

[DefQon]

And what's the next step after having $200k speakers in your room? You bring the orchestra/concert with you! 

 

[mathewpavao]

I think headphones are better…speakers will disturb the neighbors unless you have none… plus you can have a one-to-one experience with headphones..

 

[Operakid]

After a career in audio using speakers exclusively, the more headphones I obtain the more I wish I used them as a tool all along. 
 
Nobody can argue about the emotional response any individual may receive from "feeling" the music in a room with a loudspeaker.  That's different for each individual.  However, the distortion from the best headphones is just plain lower, just as the coherence is higher.  One merely needs to take some measurements and run some square waves to get evidence oft this. Nothing even resembling a square wave comes out of the best speakers, including my favorites, other than the Quads.  But the headphones are so much more detailed than Quads.  However, it did not take tests to know this, I knew it just from the incredibly clean, detailed, layered, natural sound (without grit/grain/glare) which no loudspeaker currently on the market can deliver.
 
So, for emotional response, pressurizing a room, feeling the sound in your body, imaging in front of you with a true sound stage, sharing the music, hearing the music while you go to the next room, of course speakers do all that better. As far as being a low distortion transducer digging out the very last details, ambient sounds, "peering right inside the music", the best headphones do all that  better.
 
In the end, there really is no winner, it depends on what the criteria are.  Those criteria will be different for each listener.  It's almost like comparing sports cars to motorcycles.  They both go on the road, on the track, they get you where you are going, but how can one be better than the other when they are just different rigs?    

 

[David Zember]

Without a doubt in-ear headphones. Positional audio is really important for me since it enhances immersion; unlike loudspeakers, they also won't annoy anyone that doesn't want to listen to it.

 

[nicholars]

Quote:

After a career in audio using speakers exclusively, the more headphones I obtain the more I wish I used them as a tool all along. 
 
Nobody can argue about the emotional response any individual may receive from "feeling" the music in a room with a loudspeaker.  That's different for each individual.  However, the distortion from the best headphones is just plain lower, just as the coherence is higher.  One merely needs to take some measurements and run some square waves to get evidence oft this. Nothing even resembling a square wave comes out of the best speakers, including my favorites, other than the Quads.  But the headphones are so much more detailed than Quads.  However, it did not take tests to know this, I knew it just from the incredibly clean, detailed, layered, natural sound (without grit/grain/glare) which no loudspeaker currently on the market can deliver.
 
So, for emotional response, pressurizing a room, feeling the sound in your body, imaging in front of you with a true sound stage, sharing the music, hearing the music while you go to the next room, of course speakers do all that better. As far as being a low distortion transducer digging out the very last details, ambient sounds, "peering right inside the music", the best headphones do all that  better.
 
In the end, there really is no winner, it depends on what the criteria are.  Those criteria will be different for each listener.  It's almost like comparing sports cars to motorcycles.  They both go on the road, on the track, they get you where you are going, but how can one be better than the other when they are just different rigs?    

 
Well said.... I think the advantage of headphones in terms of coherence and low distortion is because of the single source driver and also lack of room harmonics etc.