[musicday]

I was going to buy S1, but now I think I should wait bit more, S2 seems more promising.

Yes, definitely get the S2 if you can afford it. Otherwise S1 should be good enough.

 

[musicday]

New firmware released: 2.0.0.3 https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2021/0908/102.html

1. Tidal APP supported
2. Fixed the bug that caused the "Play/Pause" key to become occasionally dysfunctional.
3. Fixed the bug that sample rate may be incorrectly set when rapidly switching songs in some APP.
4. ATE "Cassette" and "VinlyLP" fine-tuned
5. ATE "Brighter" and "Sweet" removed
6. PMEQ "Full bass", "Jazz", "Techno" and "Dance" removed

 

[abitdeef]

New firmware released: 2.0.0.3 https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2021/0908/102.html

1. Tidal APP supported
2. Fixed the bug that caused the "Play/Pause" key to become occasionally dysfunctional.
3. Fixed the bug that sample rate may be incorrectly set when rapidly switching songs in some APP.
4. ATE "Cassette" and "VinlyLP" fine-tuned
5. ATE "Brighter" and "Sweet" removed
6. PMEQ "Full bass", "Jazz", "Techno" and "Dance" removed

Wonder why they removed all the dsp settings?

 

[ClieOS]

No sure of this has been posted before, but here is L7 Lab's AP measurements of S2, in Chinese.

 

[MarkParity]

No sure of this has been posted before, but here is L7 Lab's AP measurements of S2, in Chinese.

It doesn't read well for the S2, poor performance above 12Khz?

I kind of glad I cancelled my order and stuck with the W2. The problem may be fixed in a later F/W version though.

 

[twister6]

It doesn't read well for the S2, poor performance above 12Khz?

I kind of glad I cancelled my order and stuck with the W2. The problem may be fixed in a later F/W version though.

Unless you are an audiophile purist who's trying to convince yourself that A will be better than B just by looking at the graph, it will all come down to comparison of functionality, features, and the actual sound with your IEMs/headphones of choice. After I updated S2 fw last night, I did more testing to check the app compatibility and to compare to W2. If you are going to base the decision purely on technical sound performance, W2 has some edge with a bit wider soundstage and slightly better dynamics, tested using 4.4mm output and Traillii w/First Time cable. From tonality perspective, it will be a matter of personal preference with W2 being brighter, more transparent, and more revealing in mids while S2 being smother, warmer, and with a little more body. One thing to keep in mind, due to chip shortage, L&P had to update W2 design, going from CS43198 to CS43131 dacs which could affect the final sound performance, though I will give L&P benefit of the doubt that changes will be kept down to minimum.

Now, in terms of functionality and smartphone compatibility, S2 has a noticeable upper edge due to less current draw (better compatibility with iPhone), improved redesigned cable (again, with iPhone you are getting now 5V instead of 3.8V like it was with previous otg cables from lotoo and l&p), both short and long usb-c otg cables, belt clip, LO (soon to be implemented in fw), MQA 4x (Win10 Tidal app or UAPP/Tidal on Android phone), and remote playback hw controls of play/pause/skip. The price is identical, if you factor in optical usb-c to lightning otg cable.

 

[musicday]

Unless you are an audiophile purist who's trying to convince yourself that A will be better than B just by looking at the graph, it will all come down to comparison of functionality, features, and the actual sound with your IEMs/headphones of choice. After I updated S2 fw last night, I did more testing to check the app compatibility and to compare to W2. If you are going to base the decision purely on technical sound performance, W2 has some edge with a bit wider soundstage and slightly better dynamics, tested using 4.4mm output and Traillii w/First Time cable. From tonality perspective, it will be a matter of personal preference with W2 being brighter, more transparent, and more revealing in mids while S2 being smother, warmer, and with a little more body. One thing to keep in mind, due to chip shortage, L&P had to update W2 design, going from CS43198 to CS43131 dacs which could affect the final sound performance, though I will give L&P benefit of the doubt that changes will be kept down to minimum.

Now, in terms of functionality and smartphone compatibility, S2 has a noticeable upper edge due to less current draw (better compatibility with iPhone), improved redesigned cable (again, with iPhone you are getting now 5V instead of 3.8V like it was with previous otg cables from lotoo and l&p), both short and long usb-c otg cables, belt clip, LO (soon to be implemented in fw), MQA 4x (Win10 Tidal app or UAPP/Tidal on Android phone), and remote playback hw controls of play/pause/skip. The price is identical, if you factor in optical usb-c to lightning otg cable.

Much respect to Lotoo for releasing a firmware update to add/fix some things so quickly after the release of S2.
Hopefully more companies will learn and release quicker their firmware updates when needed.

 

[jsmiller58]

If you are going to base the decision purely on technical sound performance, W2 has some edge with a bit wider soundstage and slightly better dynamics

The S2 on paper would clearly seem a step up over the S1 from features and power. Compared to the W2, the playback features on the S2 give it the edge, and the MQA compatibility is nice if that matters to prospective owners. The most significant difference would be the sound signature differences - the description you give is precisely what I hear between the S1 and W2, so it seems Lotoo is sticking to what might be their “house sound”. All about what listeners prefer, and synergy with their specific IEMs and headphones…. I might want to listen to my KATO and Oracle on the S1 (and thus probably S2 if I had that), while I would probably listen to my Mele and LZ A7 out of the W2…

 

[H T T]

The S2 on paper would clearly seem a step up over the S1 from features and power. Compared to the W2, the playback features on the S2 give it the edge, and the MQA compatibility is nice if that matters to prospective owners. The most significant difference would be the sound signature differences - the description you give is precisely what I hear between the S1 and W2, so it seems Lotoo is sticking to what might be their “house sound”. All about what listeners prefer, and synergy with their specific IEMs and headphones…. I might want to listen to my KATO and Oracle on the S1 (and thus probably S2 if I had that), while I would probably listen to my Mele and LZ A7 out of the W2…

In my short time with my Kato, I think the Kato synergizes better with my S1 than my W1. The Kato is a bit shouty with the W1.

 

[jsmiller58]

In my short time with my Kato, I think the Kato synergizes better with my S1 than my W1. The Kato is a bit shouty with the W1.

Yep!! I am still just getting to know my KATO and haven’t yet tried it with my dongles, only my R6 Pro, but I suspect I will find exactly the same thing when I try it out on the S1 and W2. I hadn‘t thought of it, but now that you mention it the KATO is definitely a bit shouty and will need careful pairing.

 

[Gus141]

Unless you are an audiophile purist who's trying to convince yourself that A will be better than B just by looking at the graph, it will all come down to comparison of functionality, features, and the actual sound with your IEMs/headphones of choice. After I updated S2 fw last night, I did more testing to check the app compatibility and to compare to W2. If you are going to base the decision purely on technical sound performance, W2 has some edge with a bit wider soundstage and slightly better dynamics, tested using 4.4mm output and Traillii w/First Time cable. From tonality perspective, it will be a matter of personal preference with W2 being brighter, more transparent, and more revealing in mids while S2 being smother, warmer, and with a little more body. One thing to keep in mind, due to chip shortage, L&P had to update W2 design, going from CS43198 to CS43131 dacs which could affect the final sound performance, though I will give L&P benefit of the doubt that changes will be kept down to minimum.

Now, in terms of functionality and smartphone compatibility, S2 has a noticeable upper edge due to less current draw (better compatibility with iPhone), improved redesigned cable (again, with iPhone you are getting now 5V instead of 3.8V like it was with previous otg cables from lotoo and l&p), both short and long usb-c otg cables, belt clip, LO (soon to be implemented in fw), MQA 4x (Win10 Tidal app or UAPP/Tidal on Android phone), and remote playback hw controls of play/pause/skip. The price is identical, if you factor in optical usb-c to lightning otg cable.

OK, this has been a long listening session tonight, wrapping up 2 weeks of critical listening. And…I could not say it better than @twister6 said it. I totally agree with all he says.

For me, if I was to summarize and over-simplify my findings:
—S2 is better than S1 (sound quality is about the same to me after firmware update, but the play/pause button on the S2 trumps the S1, and the higher output voltage of the S2 on iPhone is welcome, plus I have no EMI/RFI issues with the S2 in my use cases);
— W2 is better than both S1 & S2 in sound quality (very noticable to me in the mids especially); but,
— S2 is really convenient with the play/pause button and nice clip-case, and could be the deciding factor as to which is best for you.

I got my S2 over two weeks ago on Oct 11 and I have been silent on this forum because I was not impressed and I didn’t want my initial knee-jerk reaction to tarnish the interest in his DAC. But I kept going back to the W2 and the S1 and preferring their sound over the S2 out of an iPhone 12 Mini and an iPad 12.9” iPad Pro.

The recent firmware update to the S2 improved things. The S2 now sounds very similar to me as the S1 (no EFX/ATE) when volume matched (this is important to note since the S2 is louder at a given gain+vol setting compared to the same values on the S1, so when comparing S1 vs S2, turn up the S1). I also find that with my main IEM (Sony IER-Z1R) which I usually like on High gain settings, especially with the W2, playback on the S2 is actually best in the *Low* gain setting with a higher volume to my ears with those IEMs.

I will also note that the main reason I even bought the S2 was because I was getting EMI-or-RFI-(not-sure-what-to-call-it) interference with the S1 on my iPad Pro when the dongle touched the iPad, and the S2 solves this problem: it does not have any audible interference when paired with my iPhone or iPad even when touching them. yeah! [W2 never had interference issues].

So (and this is just my humble subjective opinion) if you had to choose one dongle out of S1, S2 and W2: if sound quality is the most important factor get the W2 (original not -131, since we know nothing about that one yet*edit); get S2 if you want that play/pause button or had interference issues with an S1 and prefer the Lotoo house sound.

Cheers,
Gus

*edit: W2-131 was measured (https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/luxuryprecision-w2-131/) and the CS43131-based W2 measured as good if not better than the original W2. Hopefully listening impressions match as well, but the W2-131 looks like a safe bet if you like the original W2

 

[uncletim]

Does the S2 have Line Out?

 

[musicday]

Does the S2 have Line Out?

It will have later via a firmware update.

 

[AlexaMan]

@Gus141 Very nice impression. Thanks a lot for detailed review and comparison.

 

[letitgoo]

Hi Guys,

anyone can compare Lotoo Paw S2 to THX Onyx ?