[Earbones]

He’s talking about the Android app. Android by default does ample rate conversion to 48kHz regardless of the files sample rate. To bypass it you need an Android-based DAP that bypasses the SRC or an app like UAPP and an external DAC. Tidal is trying to fix that and bypass the SRC within their Android app, like UAPP does. iOS/iPadOS do not have this issue. You just need the Tidal app and an external DAC, exactly the sample as Apple Music. There are zero issues with getting full resolution the S1 and Tidal on iOS/iPadOS. That’s just spreading misinformation, like saying there’s not a desktop app.

A little confusion here, I'll try my best to clear it.

Android resamples everything to 48 khz. Be it via upsampling or downsampling. This makes it impossible to get the real output of a type c dac and hires music is a far fetched idea.
One has the option of using third party players like UAPP, that integrate Qobuz and Tidal, but their UIs are outdated and lack many features like offline music support.

When it comes to full fledged streaming apps, Tidal is the only one who has started providing bit-perfect playback straight from the androod app, or atleast they are trying to. I know some DACs work great (Helm Bolt), and some are still being integrated (Paw S1). Nobody else has tried to do this, not apple music, not amazon music, not spotify, no one. So as far as Tidal is concerned, I think they are leading the pack when it comes to bit perfect on android.

Although I get it, I tried the apple music lossless update and it's great. Too bad they have no plans of bit perfect playback on android, and no windows app to pair with. I really believe they are losing a bunch of people due to the lack of a windows app.

Ahhhh… I see. Yeah, I’ve never really been on anything outside the Apple/iPhone ecosystem, with the exception of the Sony ZX507 (and two very briefly-owned A&Ks, only one of which I streamed on for like maybe five minutes). Yes, this is ringing a bell. That’s pretty obnoxious of Android. I wonder what the thinking is behind that? Merely to nip potential data hogging apps in the bud? That doesn’t seem very Android-like… isn’t the whole deal with Android that it’s an eminently user-respecting OS that doesn’t try and force users down one particular usage path, ala Apple and all the “iPhone sheeple”?

I don’t get too into this stuff, but what’s ringing a bell is I’m thinking about some of the discussions for the Android-based Sony devices, including the 507. People seem to blame Sony for not allowing bit-perfect streaming, and they complain that some other Android-based DAPs have been able to circumvent the Android bottleneck and stream bit-perfect. How are those other devices accomplishing this, if they are Android-based?

 

[kemba1291]

Ahhhh… I see. Yeah, I’ve never been on anything but an iPhone. That sounds pretty obnoxious of Android. I wonder what the thinking is behind that? Merely to nip a potential data hogs in the bud? That doesn’t seem very Android-like… isn’t the whole deal with Android that it’s an eminently user-respecting OS that doesn’t try and force users down one particular usage path, ala Apple and all the “iPhone sheeple”?

It's an age old kernel configuration from the early days of android development, meant to reduce processing power, since there were no Snapdragon XX_9000_XX on the market then. Also, the lack of hi-res music on the go, and the scarcity of devices that can power hi-res resolving headgear (portable DAC/AMPs not that common).
It's only now that Apple has a very good chance of pushing Hi-Res to the mainstream, and Spotify for CD Quality at least.

But I feel the real difficulty is the no. of brands, like Samsung and Xiaomi. Some android based DAPs like Shanling and Hiby R6 2020 run full fledged android OS with the ability to install any music app one wants, but they have fixed this resampling problem in the system level. Which basically means all of apple music, amazon, spotify, tidal etc will have bit perfect music by default. Which implies that this flaw is fixable, and the huge no. of android OEMs never saw this worthwhile. Other companies will now catch up I believe, now that Hi-Res on the go is a very real thing.

 

[CANiSLAYu]

A little confusion here, I'll try my best to clear it.

Android resamples everything to 48 khz. Be it via upsampling or downsampling. This makes it impossible to get the real output of a type c dac and hires music is a far fetched idea.
One has the option of using third party players like UAPP, that integrate Qobuz and Tidal, but their UIs are outdated and lack many features like offline music support.

When it comes to full fledged streaming apps, Tidal is the only one who has started providing bit-perfect playback straight from the androod app, or atleast they are trying to. I know some DACs work great (Helm Bolt), and some are still being integrated (Paw S1). Nobody else has tried to do this, not apple music, not amazon music, not spotify, no one. So as far as Tidal is concerned, I think they are leading the pack when it comes to bit perfect on android.

Although I get it, I tried the apple music lossless update and it's great. Too bad they have no plans of bit perfect playback on android, and no windows app to pair with. I really believe they are losing a bunch of people due to the lack of a windows app.

Exactly this. I don’t even think Apple Music or Amazon Music support exclusive mode on their desktop apps like Tidal does. And at least Tidal is trying to bypass the limitations of Android.

I don’t think Amazon or Apple care about “audiophiles” at all. For them, their streaming services are about keeping users in their ecosystem and selling hardware (phones, tablets, Bluetooth headphones and smart speakers). So I doubt they’re losing any subscribers because of any of these limitations, they’re just not going to capture new “audiophile” ones, which is too small a slice of the market for them to care. They can leave that to Tidal, Qobuz, Deezer, etc.

 

[garysohn]

Exactly this. I don’t even think Apple Music or Amazon Music support exclusive mode on their desktop apps like Tidal does. And at least Tidal is trying to bypass the limitations of Android.

I don’t think Amazon or Apple care about “audiophiles” at all. For them, their streaming services are about keeping users in their ecosystem and selling hardware (phones, tablets, Bluetooth headphones and smart speakers). So I doubt they’re losing any subscribers because of any of these limitations, they’re just not going to capture new “audiophile” ones, which is too small a slice of the market for them to care. They can leave that to Tidal, Qobuz, Deezer, etc.

Hear the man.

 

[Earbones]

Been using my S1 with my iPad, just tried it with my iPod Touch 7th gen… Won’t turn on. Ditto with my iPhone 12 Pro Max.

Tried two different cables. The cables are charge/data cables. I don’t believe there is such a thing as a data-capable USB-C to Lightning cable without the ability to handle simple phone/DAC pairing, so I am a little flummoxed.

Is there a setting or something I need to toggle? Like do I need to connect it to a computer and switch on compatibility with smaller mobile devices or something? Nothing in the user manual mentions that or anything remotely similar.

EDIT: doing some research, and in one thread someone said the S1 only works with the proprietary Lotoo USB-C to Lightning cable ($35)? Really hope this is not true. Anybody know?

 

[jwbrent]

Been using my S1 with my iPad, just tried it with my iPod Touch 7th gen… Won’t turn on. Ditto with my iPhone 12 Pro Max.

Tried two different cables. The cables are charge/data cables. I don’t believe there is such a thing as a data-capable USB-C to Lightning cable without the ability to handle simple phone/DAC pairing, so I am a little flummoxed.

Is there a setting or something I need to toggle? Like do I need to connect it to a computer and switch on compatibility with smaller mobile devices or something? Nothing in the user manual mentions that or anything remotely similar.

EDIT: doing some research, and in one thread someone said the S1 only works with the proprietary Lotoo USB-C to Lightning cable ($35)? Really hope this is not true. Anybody know?

I believe you can use any Apple Mifi rated cable. When I received my S1, the Lotoo lightning cable intermittently worked, so I contacted my dealer and he sent me a new one, no problems since. Other’s here have reported a similar experience. Good luck.

 

[Earbones]

I believe you can use any Apple Mifi rated cable. When I received my S1, the Lotoo lightning cable intermittently worked, so I contacted my dealer and he sent me a new one, no problems since. Other’s here have reported a similar experience. Good luck.

One of the cables I tried is a current OEM Apple USB-C to Lightning cable, bought from the Apple store.

EDIT: Just checked, the other cable (although not OEM) is Apple MFI Certified as well…

 

[NJoyzAudio]

One of the cables I tried is a current OEM Apple USB-C to Lightning cable, bought from the Apple store.

EDIT: Just checked, the other cable (although not OEM) is Apple MFI Certified as well…

Earbones

Its more than just having Apple MFI certification, as some lightning cables just do not support Audio
The Apple branded USB-C to lightning cable does not support DAC's/Audio. There are posts on Head-Fi and on the internet that have direct quotes form Apple Engineers who confirm this. The OEM Apple cable only seems to support charging and data synching.

There are many posts here in this S1 Forum that others have listed the cables they have found that will work connecting the S1 to a lightning port.
also depending on the DAC/AMP model, a cable can work for one model and not the other for the same manufacturer, and it is all in the Mfi certification for that device.

DD-HIFI has a Lightning to USB-C adapter (Model TC28i) that allows you to use theirs or others OTG USB-C Cables, and it work with the S1
But I have 1st had experience it is trial and error as I have some cables that work with the S1 that will NOT work with other DAC's and those DAC's cables won't work with the S1.

Search within this thread and you'll see posts from other besides myself where we have listed cables that work S1 to Lightning.
Some are discontinued, others are not cheap.
Its best you take a look at those comments so you can decide which you want to try, but in general the Lotoo Cable works every time unless damaged

Hope this information helps

 

[CANiSLAYu]

Been using my S1 with my iPad, just tried it with my iPod Touch 7th gen… Won’t turn on. Ditto with my iPhone 12 Pro Max.

Tried two different cables. The cables are charge/data cables. I don’t believe there is such a thing as a data-capable USB-C to Lightning cable without the ability to handle simple phone/DAC pairing, so I am a little flummoxed.

Is there a setting or something I need to toggle? Like do I need to connect it to a computer and switch on compatibility with smaller mobile devices or something? Nothing in the user manual mentions that or anything remotely similar.

EDIT: doing some research, and in one thread someone said the S1 only works with the proprietary Lotoo USB-C to Lightning cable ($35)? Really hope this is not true. Anybody know?

You need an OTG cable, like the Lotoo one. ddHifi MFi06 and FiiO LT-LT1 are two other examples.

 

[rmkjr]

This one also works if you need something quick and/or prefer Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08WQ1LY5D/

 

[Gus141]

Been using my S1 with my iPad, just tried it with my iPod Touch 7th gen… Won’t turn on. Ditto with my iPhone 12 Pro Max.
….

I mostly use the Lotoo lightning cable for the S1 (purchased from Musicteck) with my iPhone 12 Mini, but I can also get the S1 to work with an iPhone using the lightning cable included with the L&P W2. If I recall from one of your posts you have a W2, so maybe try that option before buying another cable.

 

[Earbones]

I mostly use the Lotoo lightning cable for the S1 (purchased from Musicteck) with my iPhone 12 Mini, but I can also get the S1 to work with an iPhone using the lightning cable included with the L&P W2. If I recall from one of your posts you have a W2, so maybe try that option before buying another cable.

This one also works if you need something quick and/or prefer Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08WQ1LY5D/

@Gus141 - I actually ended up returning the W2. Prefer the sound of the S1, and it draws a lot less power…

@rmkjr - Just bought it. Sure beats $35 plus shipping. Thanks!

 

[Gus141]

I actually ended up returning the W2. Prefer the sound of the S1, and it draws a lot less power…

I agree when it comes to pairing with an iPhone (I use my S1 with an iPhone 12 mini almost exclusively); but I find the W2 with an iPad Pro 12.9” 2020 to sound better than the S1. I‘m guessing the iPad power output over USB-C is less restrictive than the iPhone’s Lightning connector.

 

[kemba1291]

Just received my Lotoo Paw S1!
One thing, when connected to my windows 10 laptop, the volume controls don't work (windows controls). The buttons on the dac work, but is there any reason it doesn't work via the OS contols? Sorry for the stupid questions, this is my first DAC.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[jwbrent]

Just received my Lotoo Paw S1!
One thing, when connected to my windows 10 laptop, the volume controls don't work (windows controls). The buttons on the dac work, but is there any reason it doesn't work via the OS contols? Sorry for the stupid questions, this is my first DAC.
Any help would be appreciated.

I can’t explain the technical reason why, but yes, that is normal, the volume is controlled by the S1. It may have something to do with battery draw since the primary market for dongles is for phones.

Congrats on your first DAC, you picked a good one!