Lotoo PAW S1 - Designed for HIFI on the go with Lotoo PAW quality and the first USB DAC-AMP with dual 3.5mm & 4.4mm output
Mar 7, 2021 at 1:49 PM Post #1,816 of 2,326

FooFighter

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I think that Lotoo, or UAPP, are filling the extra bits with 0s... but it would definitely be interesting to see what they say!
As long as it's clear what's happening like 24 bits in reality and 4 x bitrate being unfolded I am totally fine
Anyone with Facebook account who can ask them?
See above contact
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 1:51 PM Post #1,817 of 2,326

CANiSLAYu

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It’s already been discussed that UAPP pads with zeroes to reach the max supported by the DAC. In S1’s case 32 bits.


My hairs and eyebrows always raise when someone starts about padding.. When a DAC is 24 or 32-bit, then the driver needs to feed it 24 or 32-bit data. It is done by padding, yes.

"I read that the bypass happens by padding the 16bits to 24bits". The bypass has nothing to do with padding. The bypass happens because we plug into the Android audio system in a certain way, nothing more.

UAPP shows the resolution of the source file, not of the target. The target resolution used is always the highest resolution possible. On the G7, that is 24-bit.
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 3:02 PM Post #1,818 of 2,326

FooFighter

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It’s already been discussed that UAPP pads with zeroes to reach the max supported by the DAC. In S1’s case 32 bits.
Hmm, thx but same is happening on IOS Tidal app too, so it's not related to UApp Android but to S1 in general...
 

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Mar 7, 2021 at 7:55 PM Post #1,819 of 2,326

jsmiller58

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How does the sound compare? with EQ disabled on S1 ofc
I didn’t have too much time to experiment today, but I did check on a few tracks. Source - LG v30 and R6 Pro. IEMs Thieaudio L4 and IMR EDP, both with a balanced cable. To me, and this could be heard differently by others, the Hidizs S9 is a bit thinner in the mids than the S1 - versus the S9, the S1 sounds warmer, fuller, more natural on the brighter L4 IEM. On the other hand, for the EDP, an already very warm IEM, the difference was much harder to detect.

They both have SE and balanced outputs, the S1 with 4.4mm and S9 with 2.5mm. Based on how loud I can drive my IEMs, the Lotoo S1 has more power on demand than the S9. **Edit: looking at the specs, both the S1and S9 seem to have approximately the same output power on balanced**

The S1 has a nice display so you can get extra information, the S1 has volume buttons, and the S1 has preset sound filters. The S1 also has MQA support, if that sort of thing matters to you. I should also note that the S1 FW is easy to upgrade (assuming you have a Windows device). The build of the Lotoo S1 is many leagues better than the Hidizs S9.

On the sound side it boils down to preferred sound signature... I prefer the warmer S1, but that is just my preference. The S9 also sounds great, just I prefer the S1’s warmer signature.

If price is a strong driver, and you have easy to drive IEMs, and you don’t care about MQA, and you are ok with a leaner signature, go for the Hidizs S9. Otherwise, I think the Lotoo S1 is in another league, overall, and worth the extra money.
 
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Mar 8, 2021 at 6:01 AM Post #1,820 of 2,326

FooFighter

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Reading the last comparison I am wondering again how comparable DAC-dongles have become in terms of SQ alone for a relatively low price.
So for SQ alone it's only a question of your IEM-DAC synergy and you own taste for sound tuning (warm, neutral, etc.).

So you pay extra for
- good construction quality,
- marketing budget,
- support-infrastructure like how many people they have employed dealing with customer requests, troubleshooting, firmware updates, etx.
... which will all go into the price of the end-product.

I'd personally also prefer a product which is well built and getting regular firmware updates, supporting latest audio standards and I am willing to pay some bucks more for that.
 
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Mar 8, 2021 at 3:19 PM Post #1,821 of 2,326

FooFighter

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S1 running balanced on High Gain with my Denon Ah D9200 and sounding nice!
Y IPhone OTG adapter loading IPad while playing.
Perfect holiday setup.
I will try battery back and IPhone on the go during next days

Edit: After listening a bit longer with my Denon I wouldn't recommend the pairing: too lean and missing body, especially with Rock and Metal.
but anyway use case would be more for IEMs for me
 

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Mar 8, 2021 at 4:19 PM Post #1,822 of 2,326

KowalskiFUT

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Got my S1 today. Listening with IE800, will try with JH Angie later this week, or the next one. I find it excellent device. A lot, but really LOT better than Dragonfly Red. Somebody above described DFR as 2-dimensional, and it is best description of it I heard. S1 has stage depth, and that alone makes great difference. S1 has much more control than DFR. DFR sounds quite raw and "loud". S1 has nice neutral-ish, composed sound image. DFR sometimes didnt seem like a worthy upgrade over iPhone dongle, or output from my Macbook Pro. S1 justify its addition to listening chain.

Build quality is excellent, solid aluminium chase, really quality construction. It needs firmware update (I installed latest .10) to sort confusion over bitrate info displayed on its small screen, but it is really solid piece of gear. Lotoo, thumbs up! :)

P.S. I may be a little biased, because I drooled over Lotoo DAPs for a long time, but couldn't justify their price regarding my audio budget. :)
 
Mar 10, 2021 at 3:20 AM Post #1,825 of 2,326

FooFighter

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any of you guys compared this to the khadas tone 2 pro? either get that or the s1. mostly mqa playback. was also looking at the L&P w2, but that doesn't have mqa support
interesting device, I like the volume wheel!
Plus full hardware mqa unfolding.
From what I read about it, it is though looking more like a micro desktop device rather than dongle?
Guess for mobile operation you'll need to attach a separate battery pack to its 2nd USB-port?
But when looking at what others here are doing to also apply extra battery power that mustn't be the big disadvantage of this device.
Reading the reviews it seems operation is a bit quirky changing modes but that's something you can get used to.

In the end I am wondering when looking at all these devices if there are really significant SQ differences or rather more better or worse DAC-headphone synergy-pairings.
Khadas using ESS Sabre DACs, so potentially brighter, colder, so you're then running better when combining with warmer headphones, but that of course differs depending on the overall DAC-implementation...
 
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Mar 10, 2021 at 7:23 AM Post #1,826 of 2,326

shinbojan

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After a week of a/b testing with my iems (dunu 2000j), I must admit that I hear almost no differences compared to iphone 6s.
I've only listened a few tracks with Fidelio X2, but to me they've sounded the same.
Ofc, this can be caused by my music selection (mostly rock/metal), imprecise volume matching, my hearing or just lack of experience. If you can, please recommend me some tracks and what to look for.

But I am still satisfied with the device.
It looks nice, does not have to be charged and offers better sound when connected to my laptop or to Switch (I plan to use it with playstation 5 after I buy it, as I cannot connect my schiit stack to it).
It also helped me find the limits of my hearing, I would've made a big mistake if I've bought M11 Pro like I was planning to.
 
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Mar 10, 2021 at 7:36 AM Post #1,827 of 2,326

KowalskiFUT

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After a week of a/b testing with my iems (dunu 2000j), I must admit that I hear almost no differences compared to iphone 6s.
I've only listened a few tracks with Fidelio X2, but to me they've sounded the same.
Ofc, this can be caused by my music selection (mostly rock/metal), imprecise volume matching, my hearing or just lack of experience. If you can, please recommend me some tracks and what to look for.

But I am still satisfied with the device.
It looks nice, does not have to be charged and offers better sound when connected to my laptop or to Switch (I plan to use it with playstation 5 after I buy it, as I cannot connect my schiit stack to it).
It also helped me find the limits of my hearing, I would've made a big mistake if I've bought M11 Pro like I was planning to.

Mate, most important thing is to always, ALWAYS, trust your own ears. Because in this hobby it is easy to become passive zombie that bites and buys the hype. People compulsive buy things they dont need, because they are in belief that they sound better for some mythical golden ears of some other person. There is no "right" answer, I find sound from iPhone dongle (newer iPhones dont have 3.5 output so I use dongle), better than a lot expensive gear. Gear that some things does very well, but a lot of important things does quite wrong so end product isnt pretty or accurate sound image.
 
Mar 16, 2021 at 5:36 AM Post #1,830 of 2,326

sulfuriq

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The more I use Lotoo PAW S1, the more I like it. There's definitely different between S1 with ifi Hip DAC and Zen DAC due to different DAC chip but all of them have good SQ. It's so easy to drive my 1more H1707 (unbalanced) and Hifiman HE400SE (balanced) with details and clarity.
With iFi Hip DAC you have to worry 2 batteries, the phone and the DAC while S1 you only need 1
Both can play Hi-Res, DSD and MQA
Hip DAC you can't change the sound signature except in the phone where you'll loose the bit-perfect but S1 have the built in EQ/ATE except for MQA
Both can control volume externally
S1 you have the display of information while Hip DAC based on LED color (PCM/DSD/MQA)
Both well built with aluminum casing
S1 is more portable and worry free compare to Hip DAC without hassle
S1 will not easily forgive bad recording files
This small dac/amp have checked all the box as a truly portable device that can enhance you music listening level while on the go. Good work Lotoo!!
 

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