[Samgotit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif vcoheda, if you file in small claims court, you are simply causing more problems for yourself, as you already note.....just file the PayPal claim and be done with it, and wait for a deal on another pair.

Sucks, but I agree. You will draw this thing out for naught.

If it's any solace, this thread has has taught me yet another lesson about person to person internet transactions: Be clear about amount of insurance... regardless.

I don't mean this as a sermon but more a commentary on the devolution of ebay, but, in the end, I go into ebay and PTP internet purchases with the same attitude that I do when I enter a casio: don't bring what you can't afford to lose.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif vcoheda, if you file in small claims court, you are simply causing more problems for yourself, as you already note.....just file the PayPal claim and be done with it, and wait for a deal on another pair.

i really don't see how the seller is at fault here, at least wholly. i do believe that he should have insured the headphones for the auction price ($300), but beyond that he did everything right. he shipped the item in a timely manner and to the correct address. i'm trying to be civil about this. he is an individual and not a company. i also have spoken to him personally and he seems like an upfront guy. if i take his $300 he is out that money out of pocket. the default insurance is $100. that would leave $200 to account for. i may ask for half that amount from him personally.

i still have time to file a paypal action and i may do that, but not yet.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samgotit /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sucks, but I agree. You will draw this thing out for naught.

you think i should file a paypal action for the full amount ($300) and let things take its course from there.

 

[Samgotit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif you think i should file a paypal action for the full amount ($300) and let things take its course from there.

I think when someone offers you insurance, it's completely reasonable to expect that person would insure for the actually value of the item, not a default $100 bucks. I would ask the seller for the cash back and let him go after his C-note. See where is goes from there. If it's not resolved, file the claim before expiration.

 

[Cid]

I think it's rather unfair to pin this on the seller, when it was the courier that screwed up.

Nothing like this has ever happened to me, but if it did I'd be banging the guys door down. (The one who received the package)

 

[santiclaws]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif it get's more interesting. i just spoke to UPS and they confirmed that the package was indeed left at the front door of the apartment and not just of the building, so i think this is further evidence that this tenant has my headphones. so it was delivered at 3:00 PM and left at his front door. i was at his apartment that night at 9:00 and it was not there - only a 6 hour gap. unless it was taken by somone else in that short time span, he has them. i am going to try to leave a note on his door tonight telling him i believe he has my headphones and ask for their return. if nothing happens, i think i will file a small claims suit against him. but even then, i think my chances are slim for although i think it is likely he has them, he can still say "i have no idea what you're talking abou." :/

Your chances of winning are significantly below slim. If this is an apartment building, who knows what person may have walked by his door and grabbed the package in the 6-hour time span? You have exactly zero proof of anything other than the fact that there supposedly a package there at 3:00 p.m. (you would need a written statement from the UPS driver) and no package at 9:00 p.m. That is nowhere near enough to prove your case. I would go as far as to say there's a good chance the guy doesn't have your package.

That said, you are letting the seller off the hook way too easily because he is absolutely at fault here for trying to save a couple of bucks and failing to do what he promised in his auction listing. Listing "insurance included" in the auction clearly implies that the item would be insured for its full value, not a third of the value or some other percentage, and any reasonable buyer would interpret the statement "insurance included" to mean "insured for full value." If he "insured" it for $10, would anyone consider that reasonable? I don't think UPS even calls the $100 "insurance." Paypal should, and likely will, go after the seller for the $200 difference.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by santiclaws /img/forum/go_quote.gif That said, you are letting the seller off the hook way too easily because he is absolutely at fault here for trying to save a couple of bucks and failing to do what he promised in his auction listing. Listing "insurance included" in the auction clearly implies that the item would be insured for its full value, not a third of the value or some other percentage, and any reasonable buyer would interpret the statement "insurance included" to mean "insured for full value." If he "insured" it for $10, would anyone consider that reasonable? I don't think UPS even calls the $100 "insurance." Paypal should, and likely will, go after the seller for the $200 difference.

x2.

You need to remind yourself, again, that you are not at fault in any way. The seller goofed up, plain and simple, and regardless of whether he is a nice guy or not......he owes you some RS2's or a full refund, no questions asked. And if you don't have them, he sure isn't acting like the nice guy you want to believe he might be.

He decided to ship the item via a method that didn't require a signature, did he not? Though it really doesn't matter--did he even ask you if he could ship it that way?

The big reason PayPal offers that protection on eBay is that the whole thing would come crashing down if buyers suddenly thought too many sellers were out to screw them. PayPal figures all this into their business model--just like the credit card companies--knowing that they will have to pay out. And from what I read, it's dang obvious that your case is exactly why the protection is offered.

 

[ecclesand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif He decided to ship the item via a method that didn't require a signature, did he not? Though it really doesn't matter--did he even ask you if he could ship it that way?

I ship everything without the signature required. Is this not a good thing to do? I'm thinking of the buyer who may or may not be home at the time the shipment arrives and if not, he/she would have to pick it up at the UPS distribution center or try to work out another delivery with UPS. I think I would be put off a bit if I had to lug my butt to the UPS center to pick up my package. Of course, when I ship via UPS, I always declare the value as the amount I was paid for the item so if it is lost or stolen, noone is out any money (providing UPS honors the claim).

 

[sejarzo]

It's a crap shoot on that.....the signature requirement can goof things up beyond what you mention. UPS once sent a camera back to the vendor rather than hold it for my signature at the center, just a few days before I was leaving on a two week vacation to Hawaii. Luckily, the local UPS center confirmed to the vendor that they had sent it back by mistake, and the vendor sent another out right away.

Rule #1: Nothing is foolproof.

At the time, I was living in an apartment, and the UPS guy could only leave things in a small entry vestibule, where I wouldn't want anything of significant value left...and IIRC, the vendor even told me that they wouldn't ship to an apartment number without a signature for that very reason. The shipping department where I worked was getting tired of having to deal with deliveries of personal items for employees--so they enacted a policy that if it didn't have a company PO number clearly shown on the outside of the package, they refused it!

 

[vcoheda]

i asked the seller for a partial refund ($200) to resolve this claim. i wrote him the other day. has yet to respond. if he fails to reply and agree by the end of the week, i will file a paypal claim against him and for the full amount ($300). seems like my only recourse.

in a futile attempt to get back my headphones, i also left a note on the tenant's door telling him that UPS confirmed that the package was delivered to his address and left at his front door and asking for its return. i doubt that will result in anything, but ... well i did it anyway.

no winners here.

 

[sejarzo]

Something really escapes me here, vcoheda.......

You paid something like $315 to the seller, correct, and have nothing to show for that?

Why in the world, when there is an immediate avenue available to you to recover the full amount (a PayPal claim), would you choose to screw yourself out of $115?

If you let the guy off the hook for $200, then you will be forever upset that you lost $115 on the deal, won't you?

Remember, you did absolutely nothing wrong here. The seller and UPS screwed up.

 

[ecclesand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Something really escapes me here, vcoheda....... You paid something like $315 to the seller, correct, and have nothing to show for that? Why in the world, when there is an immediate avenue available to you to recover the full amount (a PayPal claim), would you choose to screw yourself out of $115? If you let the guy off the hook for $200, then you will be forever upset that you lost $115 on the deal, won't you? Remember, you did absolutely nothing wrong here. The seller and UPS screwed up.

I totally agree. If the seller had insured for the full $315, then noone would be out any money at all. This is definitely the fault of the seller.

 

[vcoheda]

b/c i'm a nice guy or stupid or both. i don't know.

 

[StevieDvd]

If it helps sway your decision one way or another:

1. There's no proof the package was received by the tenant of the flat where it was left.

2. UPS are at fault if anyone - If I were the seller I'd be going after them for failure to deliver as per the contract. Insurance or not they fouled up and I don't expect insurance to cover incompetence so I'd hassle them for a full refund of the costs.

3. The auction did say it would be delivered insured so any shortfall (if that's the only refund) should be on the sellers side - he under insured it.

4. You being too nice could look suspicious - the seller may think you are trying it on and actually managed to pick up the headphones and are trying to get some cash back!

just my 2 cents.

Steve

 

[Jaw007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd /img/forum/go_quote.gif If it helps sway your decision one way or another: 1. There's no proof the package was received by the tenant of the flat where it was left. 2. UPS are at fault if anyone - If I were the seller I'd be going after them for failure to deliver as per the contract. Insurance or not they fouled up and I don't expect insurance to cover incompetence so I'd hassle them for a full refund of the costs. 3. The auction did say it would be delivered insured so any shortfall (if that's the only refund) should be on the sellers side - he under insured it. 4. You being too nice could look suspicious - the seller may think you are trying it on and actually managed to pick up the headphones and are trying to get some cash back! just my 2 cents. Steve

Go after UPS not the shipper.It was UPS fault not the seller!