[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I said we could all agree on is that the most important thing is table-cartridge-arm-phono-stage SYNERGY. You don't agree on that????? I find that hard to believe. ---------------- The other issue with you "turntable-uber-alles" folks in a thread like this is you're going to convince people who are thinking they should try vinyl that they can't enjoy it unless they spring for a big-buck table. I think that's wrong-headed. I have a Yamaha DD deck from the late 70's that I bought off EBay for $20 a few years ago and slapped a Shure M97XE on it for use at my folks summer home, where there is a huge pile of Vinyl that used to belong to my Grandfather. And you know what? It sounds AWESOME. You don't need a big-buck deck to START enjoying Vinyl, that is for sure. Just get into it, however you can. Worry about the upgrades later.

You don't need a big-buck deck. You just need a good one. Unfortunately,good new decks seem to start at about $2000 these days and the less expensive ones just aren't made like they were back when the mass population actually played vinyl. The best alternative is to buy a good vintage deck or a Technics 1200 and fit it with a good modern tonearm. BTW, the Shure M97xE is hardly a budget performer. When fitted with a high quality fine line stylus, it will approach the performance of most any thousand dollar MC cartridge.

 

[Skylab]

Well there are two things we agree on - 1. That vintage decks are the way to go if you are on a tight budget, and 2. That the Shure M97Xe is a real bargain

However, taking a Technics 1200 and "fitting it with a good modern tonearm" is still not a realistic budget approach for most folks. There is a lot of interest in phono rigs that are $200 all in. And there ARE ways to do that and get good results. It's better, IMO, to encourage this, than to say it can't be done.

Anyway. JMO.

 

[theCanadian]

Right.... so what I'm getting is that I need to find a vintage table in good condition and at least put a $50 cart on it and fresh belts if need be to hopefully come up with something equivocating CD quality or better?

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well there are two things we agree on - 1. That vintage decks are the way to go if you are on a tight budget, and 2. That the Shure M97Xe is a real bargain However, taking a Technics 1200 and "fitting it with a good modern tonearm" is still not a realistic budget approach for most folks. There is a lot of interest in phono rigs that are $200 all in. And there ARE ways to do that and get good results. It's better, IMO, to encourage this, than to say it can't be done. Anyway. JMO.

I work for a living like most people and I am all for saving money. The problem with buying turntables is that they are electromechanical devices that tend to be costly. Things like good motors, heavy platters, and good bearings generally don't come cheap and the process of trying to skimp on these things can easily degenerate toward a fool's budget. It's OK to skimp on Amps, speakers, and even cartridges which need replaced after 1000 hours. Putting the lion's share of the budget into the turntable is really the wisest way to go.

 

[Fido2]

Are you a DIY type at all? I have an old AR XA that needs TLC...I will give it to you if you just pay shipping.

 

[Huckster]

Haha I wonder how many of you "2000+ fantasticly great" TT people could tell the difference between a record played with the same (200 dollar range) cart on a nice vintage $200 turntable (both with proper vibration isolation, correct tonearm weights) I bet most would fail or get lucky. MAYBE they could with a much pricier cart, but all of this $$$ spending is no help for getting started in vinyl.
Find a table that's easy to operate, get a good cartridge thats compatible. 'nuff said ^^

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckster /img/forum/go_quote.gif Haha I wonder how many of you "2000+ fantasticly great" TT people could tell the difference between a record played with the same (200 dollar range) cart on a nice vintage $200 turntable (both with proper vibration isolation, correct tonearm weights) I bet most would fail or get lucky. MAYBE they could with a much pricier cart, but all of this $$$ spending is no help for getting started in vinyl. Find a table that's easy to operate, get a good cartridge thats compatible. 'nuff said ^^

As I have hinted earlier, many vintage turntables are fully equal to $2000 turntables manufactured today. Turntable technology has progressed very little since the late 1960s but tonearm technology has made pretty big strides by comparison. Mount a good modern tonearm onto a good vintage turntable and you will end up with an excellent vinyl setup. People with chincy turntables would be wasting money investing in expensive cartridges. Very revealing poor turntable performance is nothing pleasant to listen to. It take a very good turntable and tonearm to get fine cartridges to function correctly.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssportclay /img/forum/go_quote.gif I work for a living like most people and I am all for saving money. The problem with buying turntables is that they are electromechanical devices that tend to be costly. Things like good motors, heavy platters, and good bearings generally don't come cheap and the process of trying to skimp on these things can easily degenerate toward a fool's budget. It's OK to skimp on Amps, speakers, and even cartridges which need replaced after 1000 hours. Putting the lion's share of the budget into the turntable is really the wisest way to go.

That's all well and good if someone can actually EVER spend $1K+ on a vinyl set-up. Some folks can't, and I don't think it's wise or reasonable to discourage them from getting into vinyl in a less ambitious way.

But I've made my point and will move on.

To the OP: I think a vintage TT in decent shape and a new budget cartridge will give you more than enough of what makes vinyl enjoyable to get you started, yes. You can always upgrade later if you have the mind and finances to do so. For the record, this is exactly what I did. Yes, I own a kilobuck vinyl rig now, but I started with a vintage deck and fairly inexpensive cartridge. Loved it. So much that I bought a LOT of vinyl. Then decided I needed a better TT...etc. etc.

Via con Dios.

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's all well and good if someone can actually EVER spend $1K+ on a vinyl set-up. Some folks can't, and I don't think it's wise or reasonable to discourage them from getting into vinyl in a less ambitious way. But I've made my point and will move on. To the OP: I think a vintage TT in decent shape and a new budget cartridge will give you more than enough of what makes vinyl enjoyable to get you started, yes. You can always upgrade later if you have the mind and finances to do so. For the record, this is exactly what I did. Yes, I own a kilobuck vinyl rig now, but I started with a vintage deck and fairly inexpensive cartridge. Loved it. So much that I bought a LOT of vinyl. Then decided I needed a better TT...etc. etc. Via con Dios.

Who said anything about spending $1K+. A Technics 1200 MK2 costs much less and Memepool has a thread on this forum,(Low Budget Vinyl Source), with a nice list of quality low budget vintage turntables from which to choose. People shouldn't buy cheap just to take the plunge. Get a good turntable from the start.

 

[theCanadian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I said we could all agree on is that the most important thing is table-cartridge-arm-phono-stage SYNERGY. You don't agree on that????? I find that hard to believe. ---------------- The other issue with you "turntable-uber-alles" folks in a thread like this is you're going to convince people who are thinking they should try vinyl that they can't enjoy it unless they spring for a big-buck table. I think that's wrong-headed. I have a Yamaha DD deck from the late 70's that I bought off EBay for $20 a few years ago and slapped a Shure M97XE on it for use at my folks summer home, where there is a huge pile of Vinyl that used to belong to my Grandfather. And you know what? It sounds AWESOME. You don't need a big-buck deck to START enjoying Vinyl, that is for sure. Just get into it, however you can. Worry about the upgrades later.

This. I think half the experience would be physically interacting with your music. Nowadays, music is so portable and easy that it's easy to forget to enjoy the experience. Vinyl forces you to interact with and pay attention to your music. The whole process of taking a record out of it's sleeve, examining it (perhaps even blowing some dust off), gently laying it on the table and carefully dropping the needle into a groove can be quite soothing. Not to mention that the *pop* - *click click* of first laying the needle down is quite welcoming. It's almost as if the music realizes that it's time to play and says, "Oh! One moment while I clear a space for us."

In short, vinyl gives more life to your music. CD's were cool in the 90's, and are still a good storage tool for high quality sound, but it's not the same as vinyl.

 

[Il Mostro]

A far more interesting and infinitely upgradable option would be a Lenco (L-75, L-78 or even a B series). Classic Swiss turntable that is easily flipped since is it in constant demand by modders. I've seen non-modded versions is perfect operating condition for as low as $150.00. Expect to pay $300 +/- for a well-sorted L-series. The modded versions can run into the thousands. Cool-quotient is off the charts.

 

[Bones13]

Spinning vinyl is not for everyone. It is not easy, or foolproof. I do agree with starting with a vintage deck, and a moderately priced cartridge, as I think you need to experience some vinyl collecting, cleaning, storing, and spinning before spending a lot on the hobby. You will end up spending a good deal by the time you settle down.

TT + Cartridge + Phono Stage (unless you have an amp with phono input)

Records - eventually you will need to store them as well.

If you shop the flea market and peoples attics like I do, you will end up needing some sort of record cleaner.

That being said, I have enjoyed my vinyl journey for the past year and a half. Resurrecting some of the classic rock that I grew up with, and listening to some of the nice jazz vocals that I tend to favor now.

My main need now is a decent listening room for my speakers.

 

[freakydrew]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theCanadian /img/forum/go_quote.gif This. I think half the experience would be physically interacting with your music. Nowadays, music is so portable and easy that it's easy to forget to enjoy the experience. Vinyl forces you to interact with and pay attention to your music. The whole process of taking a record out of it's sleeve, examining it (perhaps even blowing some dust off), gently laying it on the table and carefully dropping the needle into a groove can be quite soothing. Not to mention that the *pop* - *click click* of first laying the needle down is quite welcoming. It's almost as if the music realizes that it's time to play and says, "Oh! One moment while I clear a space for us." In short, vinyl gives more life to your music. CD's were cool in the 90's, and are still a good storage tool for high quality sound, but it's not the same as vinyl.

exactly!

plus with some nice tube amps and tube preamp the sound is just so different...even the cracks and occasional static noise!
lol
good luck

 

[ssportclay]

There is one thing that doesn't get brought up enough. Its very nice to actually listen to music without it run through an evil digital converter and back again. People seem to be constantly looking for the newest and best DAC available. They look and look, spend more money and then look again as if DACs were nice things to own. DACs are not at all nice. In fact they are bad. An exceptionally good DAC sounds nice only because it does less damage to the music. I am guilty of listening to a lot of digital music myself and given the choice I would much prefer to receive my music pristine and undamaged.

 

[grawk]

You act like there's any analog method that doesn't damage the music. It's all compromises.