Uncle Erik
Uncle Exotic
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2006
- Posts
- 22,596
- Likes
- 532
Quote:
Believe me, the paper shoveling gets old in a hurry. If you're good at it, then the piles will just get bigger and you'll spend more time with them.
Also, trial advocacy is nothing like what you see on TV. 95% of it is doing routine stuff, like standing up and saying, "your honor, I have a pretrial conference on the 15th, but I am free on the 22nd. If that works for the Court and the other counsel, let's set it the 22nd." You look over at opposing counsel who says "OK," then you and opposing counsel go have lunch. Sometimes you'll settle the case right then. The high drama ain't there.
Maybe that's for you, maybe it isn't, but that's what the job is. It makes for bad TV, but is pretty livable.
About the top 14 law schools and grades... don't put that much stock into it. Remember, 90% of those out there practicing weren't in the top 10% and they don't give a rat's ass where you graduated. They want experience, the ability to pull in clients and a clean disciplinary record.
I went to a mid range school and graduated in the top 50%. I was not going to kill myself for some ranking. I just wanted to graduate and pass the bar. The first job paid badly, but I went back to school and got another degree in accounting. You can always add to your skill set later or get a complimentary degree.
Oh, and the whole big firm/associate game is a bunch of BS, anyhow. Even if you go to the Big Name School and make law review, you're still cannon fodder at the big firms. Remember, they're stocked with 200 other associates just like you. You're no longer special. Every year, about 70% of the associates will leave. Of those that remain, only four or five will make partner after six to eight years of putting in 80-90 hour weeks.
You might not make partner because one of the partners doesn't like you personally. Or you might not make partner even though they love you and you bring in clients because several partners in their seventies aren't ready to hang it up and want to skim your earnings for several more years. Meanwhile, you work 80 hours a week and they get to keep 90% of what your clients are paying the firm. You'll get strung along - maybe if you take on another case (hey, it's only 10 hours a week) you'll look good during the partnership review.
And even if you make partner, a lot of firms start you off as a non-equity partner. Meaning that you don't get a share of the total revenue, but they have this second tier to keep you from jumping ship or starting your own firm.
The equity partners don't have it easy, either. These days, it seems that clients aren't always paying their bills or demanding discounts and reductions.
So after killing yourself for close to ten years, you might end up screwed in the end.
It's not worth it. The whole Big School/Big Ranking/Big Firm thing is overblown. It's just a way to waste your life.
I'm not big on academia, either. It's fine for some people, but there's a backstabby atmosphere and I don't want to publish what inevitably goes unread. It can be good for others, but that sort of thing drives me crazy.
If you care about the law, go to a school you can afford and take all the practical stuff. Then get out there. The low paying jobs don't always stay that way. You need to get your feet wet for a couple of years, but then you can go it alone or with a few friends.
The many people I know who've done that have ended up bringing down $100k-$300k a year. If you keep overheat low you can still do pretty good charging $75-$100 per hour. $75 an hour at 2,000 hours a year works out to $150,000. How bad would that be? Get three or four other attorneys you like together, rent a place, and do your own thing without all the BS and wasted life. If you set up your own shop, you're not going to care about your law school ranking, are you? Clients never ask, either.
There's one solo in Oregon I knew who scheduled her appointments and meetings mostly in the evenings. Clients loved that - they didn't have to take time off from work.
Then she bought an unlimited lift pass at the local ski area. It was mostly deserted during week hours Monday through Friday.
She spent her days skiing. I can't remember her ever seeming unhappy.
In contrast, I can't remember the last time I saw someone that happy at my office.
The only reason I'm not in my office right now is because they're shut down for emergency fire/life testing. I'll be there tomorrow, though.
But don't fall for the game, the stuff you're "supposed" to do to be "successful." Until I had to come back to LA to help the family, I was close to partnering up with a solo practitioner who had extra office space. From the work I already had after a couple years in the county, I probably would have pulled close to $100k the first year.
I will go back to that. But for now, the Big Firm is OK. I don't care about "making it," I care about stuffing cash into savings and investments. When I get back to the real practice of law, I'm hoping that I'll be able to keep hours down to 1,000-1,500 a year. Enough to actually work and enjoy it, but also plenty of time to take a couple weeks off for a vacation just about any time I feel like it. Contrast that with the "prestige" of grinding 90 hour weeks in an office tower.
| Originally Posted by skitlets /img/forum/go_quote.gif And I'm not afraid of public speaking, but the prospect of defending/prosecuting in court doesn't really pique my interest. The moral ambiguity makes me uncertain. Although, after dealing with a couple of terrible, cheap landlords in recent years... I think I'd quite enjoy dealing with rental, housing and leasing laws. There's actually a lawyer that works on campus who specifically deals with these issues for students. THAT job sounds like a dream, using knowledge to help those who are otherwise out of the loop and being taken advantage of because of it. |
Believe me, the paper shoveling gets old in a hurry. If you're good at it, then the piles will just get bigger and you'll spend more time with them.
Also, trial advocacy is nothing like what you see on TV. 95% of it is doing routine stuff, like standing up and saying, "your honor, I have a pretrial conference on the 15th, but I am free on the 22nd. If that works for the Court and the other counsel, let's set it the 22nd." You look over at opposing counsel who says "OK," then you and opposing counsel go have lunch. Sometimes you'll settle the case right then. The high drama ain't there.
Maybe that's for you, maybe it isn't, but that's what the job is. It makes for bad TV, but is pretty livable.
About the top 14 law schools and grades... don't put that much stock into it. Remember, 90% of those out there practicing weren't in the top 10% and they don't give a rat's ass where you graduated. They want experience, the ability to pull in clients and a clean disciplinary record.
I went to a mid range school and graduated in the top 50%. I was not going to kill myself for some ranking. I just wanted to graduate and pass the bar. The first job paid badly, but I went back to school and got another degree in accounting. You can always add to your skill set later or get a complimentary degree.
Oh, and the whole big firm/associate game is a bunch of BS, anyhow. Even if you go to the Big Name School and make law review, you're still cannon fodder at the big firms. Remember, they're stocked with 200 other associates just like you. You're no longer special. Every year, about 70% of the associates will leave. Of those that remain, only four or five will make partner after six to eight years of putting in 80-90 hour weeks.
You might not make partner because one of the partners doesn't like you personally. Or you might not make partner even though they love you and you bring in clients because several partners in their seventies aren't ready to hang it up and want to skim your earnings for several more years. Meanwhile, you work 80 hours a week and they get to keep 90% of what your clients are paying the firm. You'll get strung along - maybe if you take on another case (hey, it's only 10 hours a week) you'll look good during the partnership review.
And even if you make partner, a lot of firms start you off as a non-equity partner. Meaning that you don't get a share of the total revenue, but they have this second tier to keep you from jumping ship or starting your own firm.
The equity partners don't have it easy, either. These days, it seems that clients aren't always paying their bills or demanding discounts and reductions.
So after killing yourself for close to ten years, you might end up screwed in the end.
It's not worth it. The whole Big School/Big Ranking/Big Firm thing is overblown. It's just a way to waste your life.
I'm not big on academia, either. It's fine for some people, but there's a backstabby atmosphere and I don't want to publish what inevitably goes unread. It can be good for others, but that sort of thing drives me crazy.
If you care about the law, go to a school you can afford and take all the practical stuff. Then get out there. The low paying jobs don't always stay that way. You need to get your feet wet for a couple of years, but then you can go it alone or with a few friends.
The many people I know who've done that have ended up bringing down $100k-$300k a year. If you keep overheat low you can still do pretty good charging $75-$100 per hour. $75 an hour at 2,000 hours a year works out to $150,000. How bad would that be? Get three or four other attorneys you like together, rent a place, and do your own thing without all the BS and wasted life. If you set up your own shop, you're not going to care about your law school ranking, are you? Clients never ask, either.
There's one solo in Oregon I knew who scheduled her appointments and meetings mostly in the evenings. Clients loved that - they didn't have to take time off from work.
Then she bought an unlimited lift pass at the local ski area. It was mostly deserted during week hours Monday through Friday.
She spent her days skiing. I can't remember her ever seeming unhappy.
In contrast, I can't remember the last time I saw someone that happy at my office.
The only reason I'm not in my office right now is because they're shut down for emergency fire/life testing. I'll be there tomorrow, though.
But don't fall for the game, the stuff you're "supposed" to do to be "successful." Until I had to come back to LA to help the family, I was close to partnering up with a solo practitioner who had extra office space. From the work I already had after a couple years in the county, I probably would have pulled close to $100k the first year.
I will go back to that. But for now, the Big Firm is OK. I don't care about "making it," I care about stuffing cash into savings and investments. When I get back to the real practice of law, I'm hoping that I'll be able to keep hours down to 1,000-1,500 a year. Enough to actually work and enjoy it, but also plenty of time to take a couple weeks off for a vacation just about any time I feel like it. Contrast that with the "prestige" of grinding 90 hour weeks in an office tower.
