[GreenNeedle]

Hello. I would just like to start saying that I have been researching on here for months and keep deciding then undeciding so I actually have quite a long list of headphones in mind that I don't really know what I am looking for from them.

Despite reading through the glossary of how to describe sound I don’t really understand it so probably easier to describe what I listen to, what I like and what I currently listen to it on.

So on to my setup. I do have an Yamaha RX-V361 AV receiver linked to my SACD/DVD player TV and cable box etc but I don't listen to music through that. It is linked to Mordaunt Short (MS) Aviano 2 front speakers, MS Aviano 7 Centre speaker and MS Alumni rear surrounds. I did have a Sub but I never used it and the Aviano 2s go as low as 45hz so I set the crossover on the receiver to 80hz and direct the sub frequencies to the front speakers.

On this setup I use headphones only on rare occasions but it is only from TV channels, that are virtually all SD and not HD, or youtube on the smart TV. I’m not really concerned how the sound from the headphones is from this output because it isn’t from what I would consider to be a high quality source. I also don’t particularly like the sound from the Yamaha so I have my SACD/DVD player linked to a different receiver through the RCA outputs (coaxial output from the SACD goes to the AV for DVD/family use.)

I also use on rare occasions through my laptop but again I am not bothered how this sounds.

Onto the all important setup that I do listen to music on.

I have a Rotel RX-150A Stereo Receiver from 1972 which is linked to just the MS Aviano2 front speakers (they are on a manual switch box.) Connected to this is a Trio KD-1033 turntable from the late 70s which I use Ortofon FF15XE and Shure M75ED stylus on depending on the music I am playing. I use the Ortofon for 80s/more modern music and the Shure for 70s rock. I am silly and like to use the older needle to hear the music as it would have been heard at the time. Lol

This stereo receiver is not the most powerful at 8watts per channel but it is plenty loud enough for me with the volume at half way or less whether through the speakers or the earphones I currently use.

I also have a lot of CDs which I play through a Pioneer DV-696AV. I used to play CDs on this through the Yamaha AV receiver before I got the Rotel and never really liked the sound the Yamaha gave. Even though I leave the Yamaha on straight all the time it doesn’t right. I don;t trust it to actually be straight and is more like a digital interpretation of what straight is rather than being no digital effect at all (In my opinion.)

I like the warmth of the Yamaha and the Rotel which compliment the colder brighter MS speakers.

Most of my music is guitar based. A vast array of 70s/80s rock and soft metal. Rush, Sabbath into Marillion and Dire Straits. I also have lots of late eighties/early nineties UK Indie like Stone Roses, Happy Monday, Charlatans. Early 90s grunge like Soundgarden/Pearl Jam and US alternative like Rage against the machine.

So the vast majority of my music is guitar based however I do have some Prodigy and a lot of Depeche Mode.

Through my speakers I tend to leave the Yamaha on straight, so no EQ, no DSP, nothing. Just straight. On the Rotel I tend to add a little bass and a little bit more treble. The dials are only just right of centre so we are talking a smidgeon.

The only headphones I have at the moment are the Sennheiser HD438. I did research when I bought these and while all the reviews said they were bass lite I don’t find that. They are fine to me when using on the laptop. However I have recently started to listen to music properly again rather than in the background and they don’t sound very good through the Rotel. I have to add more bass and that means the bass gets a bit blurry. I also keep putting the treble up, then down etc. Maybe it isn’t the headphones (I bet it is.) It might be the pads have lost their depth.

It might be the headphones deteriorating as my wife has been using them constantly for watching her TV on her laptop and they do get knocked about a bit.

I used to really like them though and with that in mind I initially got round to searching for a replacement (slight upgrade) which being tight I will buy used from a well known auction site or somewhere else. Onto the headphones which I will detail a rough price they are going for.

Sennheiser HD598SR (New) £80 ish
HiFiMan HE400 (s or i) £140 ish used
SoundMagic HP200 £139 new / £99 used
Philips Fidelio X2 £130ish used
AKG K612/K702 £75-£130 used

I hate the feel of “on ear” much preferring “over ear” so that unfortunately rules affordable Grados out, and I like the velour pads on the HD438 so will probably look at open phones that work with velour. I have narrowed a list that was much longer down to these ones but am open to suggestion although I would prefer headphones that will work with what I have rather than need a headphone amp.

I apologise for the long post here but I really don’t know what I am reading really. I like my music to sound good but couldn’t really describe what my version of good is. I listen normally at sensible volumes and I don’t like the bass to be overpowering but it needs to be there. Think Geddy Lee in Rush where it isn’t a rumble. It is clean crisp but definitely heard. I like cymbals to sound like cymbals and not just a tshh, tshh that makes songs sound terrible. I often turn the treble down on poorly recorded songs/sources where cymbals just become aannoying messes of interference to my ears.

So over ear, open, works with my Rotel and compatible with the mostly guitar orientated music I have. Maybe I am asking too much.

Max I can afford is £150 so I am looking at the used market (note the price guides that I can see online.)

Many many thanks in advance and so sorry for such a long post.

Andy

 

[GreenNeedle]

Just to show my setup that we are concentrating on for the evaluation:

 

[Monsterzero]

AKG K240 sextetts.Glorious with all things guitar.

My video review with buying guide linked in description.

 

[squee116]

598s and K712 aren't known for bass.

The 400i, soundmagic, and x2 are best bets.

 

[GreenNeedle]

Lolz. I was reading a sextett "ID" thread earlier which I assume is a dedicated version of the guide you have in your link. Is the LP version not "the one" then? Pretty sure the ones on ebay are LP versions.

Will my 8W per channel receiver be enough for them?

Strange thing on these Sennheiser 438s. watched your video on the laptop and then listened to a youtube version of Rush-2112 and they sound great!!! Listened to it on the original vinyl through the receiver earlier on and it sounded awful through the headphones (Sounds insanely good through the MS speakers) so maybe it is the impedence problem I read about using receiver inputs with certain headphones.

 

[Monsterzero]

most low impedance HPs do not sound good from vintage receiver HP outs.Bass bloat is the most common result.

 

[GreenNeedle]

598s and K712 aren't known for bass.

The 400i, soundmagic, and x2 are best bets.

I should clarify really. I like to hear the bass but not volume wise. I am much more a quality guy than quantity. I tend to turn the bass down (and treble down) if they become too prominent. These 438s are quite a nice balance IMO. I can hear the bass but it isn't too loud They just don't want to work with my receiver and sound like trash through it.

I play bass guitar and guitar. As a soundguy I would be telling whoever was louder to turn down to match the other player(s.) I am one that never needed convincing that Beats were crap despite them being better than any headphone I owned at the time.

At the mo I have the HD438s on with the laptop. No EQ on at all. Just basic windows on board sound, flat. Bass sounds about the right level to me.

 

[Monsterzero]

The LP have solid white passive radiators.They are quite bass light in my opinion.
I always recommend the MP or EP versions for most guitar oriented music,MP if youre into super complex stuff like melodeath,death/black metal or punk.

As to whether or not your 8w into 8ohm receiver will work I am not sure.Thats a very weak amp.My vintage receivers range in watts from 22w-125w and can all handle the sextetts.

 

[GreenNeedle]

most low impedance HPs do not sound good from vintage receiver HP outs.Bass bloat is the most common result.

Its hard to describe what I felt was wrong earlier when I was listening to them on the receiver. I ended up turning the bass up to 3 o clock and the treble up to 4 o clock (normally at 1 o clock each through the speakers) and it was just a mess. Of course no remote and after a bit of fiddling up and down I couldn't be bothered to get up anymore (no remote on vintage. lol) and just let it be.

 

[Monsterzero]

Its hard to describe what I felt was wrong earlier when I was listening to them on the receiver. I ended up turning the bass up to 3 o clock and the treble up to 4 o clock (normally at 1 o clock each through the speakers) and it was just a mess. Of course no remote and after a bit of fiddling up and down I couldn't be bothered to get up anymore (no remote on vintage. lol) and just let it be.

Low ohm dynamic headphones+vintage receivers is not a good match.Planars on the other hand are less prone to sounding bad to the whole impedance matching thing.
Squee suggested the X2 amongst others and I can tell you from first hand experience you wont like the results.

 

[Monsterzero]

You can try an HD650/HD6xx ,which will work from your receiver and is much less power demanding than the sextetts.You might find the midbass to be a bit much though.

 

[GreenNeedle]

You can try an HD650/HD6xx ,which will work from your receiver and is much less power demanding than the sextetts.You might find the midbass to be a bit much though.

The HD600 and 650 are hitting silly prices £ wise. £175+ inc shipping used. Bit more than I want to spend really.

 

[Monsterzero]

Youre pretty limited to high ohm headphones(250+)and planars with your gear.The options in that impedance and price range arent huge.Other than what has been suggested you can look into Beyerdynamic DT880 or 990,but given your previous comments on bass I think the 880 would be more to your liking.IMHO Beyers are too bright from solid state gear,but again,your choices arent numerous.

The previously suggested 400i can work too.

 

[GreenNeedle]

Youre pretty limited to high ohm headphones(250+)and planars with your gear.The options in that impedance and price range arent huge.Other than what has been suggested you can look into Beyerdynamic DT880 or 990,but given your previous comments on bass I think the 880 would be more to your liking.IMHO Beyers are too bright from solid state gear,but again,your choices arent numerous.

The previously suggested 400i can work too.

I will keep an eye out for the Sextetts and the 400i then. Have both in "my watching" page at the moment. Think it is actually a 400s I have in there actually not "i". Is there much difference?

 

[squee116]

The 400s are more efficient than the i, and generally warmer, but not by much. I think the warmth softens the bass impact a bit, since the whole lower range is more emphasized, and while I like warm headphones this isn't to my taste, but may be to yours.