[jpelg]

[size=xx-small]Maybe semantics?[/size]

If the LO has an op-amp in the path, and has variable output control & EQ, perhaps the HO at full volume setting is effectively (ie. sonically) the same, even if using separate absolute paths & op-amps?

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=xx-small]Maybe semantics?[/size] If the LO has an op-amp in the path, and has variable output control & EQ, perhaps the HO at full volume setting is effectively (ie. sonically) the same, even if using separate absolute paths & op-amps?

Not that simple in the conventional sense. AS3525 is a SoC, so everything is integrated on one single chip, including the amp sections for the LO and the HO. However, if you look at the datasheet of AS3525, the schematics of both amp section are very different. In fact, I would say the opamp on the LO acts more like a buffer, but with gain control built in that allows for volume control. Setting on gain (partially) and EQ for both LO and HO are done digitally on the upstream (CPU level), thus it doesn't matter whether it is LO or HO, but hardware wise there are difference b/w LO and HO. However, the gain control on LO has been disable since a few firmware versions back, so it will be always on line level now, as specified by the spec. One other thing is, the HO also need to function as part of the radio antenna (radio is not part of the SoC), which decrease the overall SNR for the HO.

AS3525 datasheet can be found here.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif What about this?

Hi LFF

I know you from the other forum. How have you been?

The short answer is that LODs on a Fuze are snake oil unless you are looking for a place to dock the Fuze standing up:

But, since Clieo will let you demo his LODs for free, my suggestion is to try Clieo's, make the recordings with your equipment, give the WAVs the same name so you can't tell them apart, put them in foobar and using your best equipment, see for yourself. The key is not knowing which one you are listening to while making your evaluation.

USG

 

[weibby]

What about the DC offset?
Does it really matter?

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not that simple in the conventional sense. AS3525 is a SoC, so everything is integrated on one single chip, including the amp sections for the LO and the HO. However, if you look at the datasheet of AS3525, the schematics of both amp section are very different. In fact, I would say the opamp on the LO acts more like a buffer, but with gain control built in that allows for volume control. Setting on gain (partially) and EQ for both LO and HO are done digitally on the upstream (CPU level), thus it doesn't matter whether it is LO or HO, but hardware wise there are difference b/w LO and HO. However, the gain control on LO has been disable since a few firmware versions back, so it will be always on line level now, as specified by the spec. One other thing is, the HO also need to function as part of the radio antenna (radio is not part of the SoC), which decrease the overall SNR for the HO. AS3525 datasheet can be found here.

Were you able to find any other charts showing the differences between Headphone out and Line out?

I only found this data.

 

[J.Pocalypse]

I just got a LOD for my Fuze from Joe yesterday. Right away I noticed an increase in sound quality. I'm not all that savvy on the audiophile lingo n' such but all I can tell you is everything sounded crisper, cleaner, fuller, and if you were in the studio when the song was recorded, the room now sounds bigger. To me, that's an increase in sound quality. I also noticed the vocals on many of the songs I frequent sounded especially smooth. I don't regret my purchase in the slightest.. Any skeptic wondering of they should buy one, do it.

 

[weibby]

I use this for testing, suffice to say that headroom is lowered without Line out.
Not extremely noticeable but the sudden drop in the highs as they're rolled off is undeniable.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Pocalypse /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just got a LOD for my Fuze from Joe yesterday. Right away I noticed an increase in sound quality. I'm not all that savvy on the audiophile lingo n' such but all I can tell you is everything sounded crisper, cleaner, fuller, and if you were in the studio when the song was recorded, the room now sounds bigger. To me, that's an increase in sound quality. I also noticed the vocals on many of the songs I frequent sounded especially smooth. I don't regret my purchase in the slightest.. Any skeptic wondering of they should buy one, do it.

May I ask what highly resolving gear you used to make this determination?

USG

 

[J.Pocalypse]

My equipment is in my sig, just in case you hadn't noticed. Yeah. I don't own a $800 pair of headphones, or a $500 amp, but I really don't think such things should matter to a degree. Besides, what do you care what other people choose to do with their own money? If you don't think something is not worth it, don't buy it. I think it is, so I did and am just sharing my opinion.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Pocalypse /img/forum/go_quote.gif My equipment is in my sig, just in case you hadn't noticed. Yeah. I don't own a $800 pair of headphones, or a $500 amp, but I really don't think such things should matter to a degree. Besides, what do you care what other people choose to do with their own money? If you don't think something is not worth it, don't buy it.I think it is, so I did and am just sharing my opinion.

You did more than just share your opinion. You urged skeptics to buy one.

IMHO, what you experienced, using the equipment listed in your sig, was the psycho-acoustic phenomena known as placebo effect.

I really don't care what you bought, or what you do with your money, but you presented your "Placebo effect" as though it was fact and then urged unsuspecting people to buy one, so the logical question to ask is how do you know Joe and why are you promoting his products?

USG

 

[J.Pocalypse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif so the logical question to ask is how do you know Joe and why are you promoting his products? USG

I don't know him on a personal level. I've seen more than one post around here saying that he's one of the few, if only that builds Fuze LODs. I PMed him, and after some emailing, I purchased one of his products and (in my own head) am happy with what his has produced. If people are wondering where they can get one, and actually do a search and find this thread, their question will be answered for them without having to create yet another thread about the same thing.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Pocalypse /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know him on a personal level. I've seen more than one post around here saying that he's one of the few, if only that builds Fuze LODs. I PMed him, and after some emailing, I purchased one of his products and (in my own head) am happy with what his has produced. If people are wondering where they can get one, and actually do a search and find this thread, their question will be answered for them without having to create yet another thread about the same thing.

Plausible story if you weren't going around promoting Joe's LODs like you did with nowsharing, which btw is a TOS violation because Joe isn't selling LODs for the cost of the materials.

And you still haven't addressed your Placebo Effect.

First take another look at the chart I posted for the datasheet of AS3525. See how little difference there actually is between the LOD and HPO. Now think about all the solder joints that are needed in a LOD to secure the wires, the capacitors, the resistor and the 3V jumper wire.... each one having the potential to degrade the signal. Then you have to connect the LOD to a mini to mini cable, which if not made properly can also degrade the signal.

In the privacy of your own home you might want to try this:

Record a WAV directly from the LOD (using Audacity) and then record the same thing from the headphone out at full volume. Put the WAVs in two different folders so you can give them the same name. Now pop them into foobar and see if you can tell them apart with the equipment in your sig. If you're honest, you won't be able to.

USG

And btw, nice build weibby.

 

[J.Pocalypse]

I'm not going to say you're right, or I'm wrong or vice versa. None of this is helping anyone. I'm dropping the topic.

Have a nice day.

 

[OMG teh Jambands]

Hey all. I came across this topic because I'm considering a Fuze>E5>Yuin PK3 as an ultra-portable rig. It crossed my mind that I might need a LOD. I'm glad I read this. I guess the final word is that a LOD would be a waste of money, huh?

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMG teh Jambands /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey all. I came across this topic because I'm considering a Fuze>E5>Yuin PK3 as an ultra-portable rig. It crossed my mind that I might need a LOD. I'm glad I read this. I guess the final word is that a LOD would be a waste of money, huh?

I don't have an E5 but I was wondering what it does for your set up?

USG