Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide
Aug 4, 2023 at 6:33 AM Post #13,276 of 13,432
Spending a bit more time with the 6DT6A tubes on the EF92 setting, I did begin to warm up to the sound after a while, but I still felt like the EF95 setting was a bit better. I tried EF95 unstrapped again, and sure enough, the 60hz hum was back.

Looking through some older posts, it seems like this is not actually so rare.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...be-rolling-guide.563884/page-187#post-9775589
But, dang it , a hum in the right channel. I touch the tubes just to make sure they're seated properly and notice that the proximity of my hands acts like an antenna as far as diminishing or increasing the hum in either or both tubes.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...be-rolling-guide.563884/page-194#post-9794979
Interestingly, when I tried them EF95'd, the tubes started humming in a ground-loop like fashion (the first tube after 30s, the second one after 37s), meaning that the floating grid 3 was doing something out of the ordinary... I definitely cannot recommend floating g3 on pentodes...

So I started playing with other options. Right now I'm trying them in EF95 with 1-7 strapped. No hum so far with the 1-7 strap!
 
Aug 4, 2023 at 7:38 AM Post #13,277 of 13,432
That second link might help explain it. Little Dot uses pentodes as triodes, aka "triode-strapped" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentode#Triode-strapped_pentode_circuits).

In practice, when using the EF95 setting, theres an internal strap in the LD sockets connecting pins 5 and 6 (anode and screen). The jumpers (lines in green) used for the EF92 setting, straps both pin 6 and 7 to pin 5 (putting together anode, screen and suppressor).

1691147984675.png


6DT6A pinout is very similar to EF95, but the suppressor (G3) is not internally connected to anything else. So, when using the EF95 setting it floats, while when using EF92 it's strapped to A and G2. Your experience with the 1-7 strap makes sure that G3 is not alone, strapping grids 1 and 3.

1691148650462.png


So the floating grid 3 might be the culprit. I'm not sure how can this affect the right side, the left side or both sides in LD...
 
Aug 4, 2023 at 1:44 PM Post #13,278 of 13,432
That second link might help explain it. Little Dot uses pentodes as triodes, aka "triode-strapped" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentode#Triode-strapped_pentode_circuits).

In practice, when using the EF95 setting, theres an internal strap in the LD sockets connecting pins 5 and 6 (anode and screen). The jumpers (lines in green) used for the EF92 setting, straps both pin 6 and 7 to pin 5 (putting together anode, screen and suppressor).



6DT6A pinout is very similar to EF95, but the suppressor (G3) is not internally connected to anything else. So, when using the EF95 setting it floats, while when using EF92 it's strapped to A and G2. Your experience with the 1-7 strap makes sure that G3 is not alone, strapping grids 1 and 3.



So the floating grid 3 might be the culprit. I'm not sure how can this affect the right side, the left side or both sides in LD...

Due to once goofing and having one channel set for EF95 and the other for EF91/EF92, I learned that some but not all tubes that can be run on the EF91/92 setting hum if run on the EF95 setting where the grid on pin 7 is not connected to anything. The tube hummed even with the volume set at 0 and was affected by the proximity of my hand. I have read here it is not recommended to have the grid on pin 7 not connected. I don't know why. Is it just due to a risk of hum or compromised audio or could it cause a more serious problem?
 
Aug 14, 2023 at 5:03 PM Post #13,279 of 13,432
Yes, indeed, enjoy!

And if you can find them at a good price, the older embossed C3gs are well worth trying, IMHO. The embossed Siemens is very close to the silk-screened version, with a little less mid-range bloom to my ears. And the Lorenz is quite different, with less treble and air, and correspondingly, more bass and lower mid-range presence.

2015-10-14 10.09.19.jpg 2015-03-25 14.09.38.jpg
I ended up getting some Siemens C3G. They are not embossed. Wondering if you can briefly go over the different C3G tubes by how they sound? I think the Siemens C3G might be the best driver tube I have heard from soundstage, note weight, detail perspective but I find them slightly bright in my chain.

Sounds like Lorenz might be a candidate for me? If you are open to selling or trading some tubes please PM thanks again
 
Aug 22, 2023 at 6:47 PM Post #13,281 of 13,432
7
Other people have other favourites and rightly so :)
The EL42 is one member of a historical series of 6.3v .2Ah car audio tubes. It was followed by the EL95 aka 6DL5 which is plug and play in EF95 mode in my Little Dot MKIII. I rolled it today, and it sounds very good playing Franco TPOK rumba Jazz. As far as I know it's the last in series. The first was the octal EL32 which sometimes came in a Coke bottle tube. It was equivalent per the valve museum website to the side-contact based EL2 Next came the rimlock EL42 and, per the valve museum's website, its equivalent the EL85 on a noval base. I wonder if they would sound similar or quite different in our Little Dots. The EL32 may be the most dissimilar of the lot.
 
Aug 23, 2023 at 3:35 PM Post #13,284 of 13,432
Hey there everyone. I have a Little Dot Mk3 and after owning it for some time now, I decided to share some of my tube rolling experiences. I did not roll a lot of tubes, it's a very small number of tubes, but the results surprised even me.

After tube rolling the Little Dot Mk3, I can pretty safely say this is an amplifier that benefits incredibly from a change of tubes.

All of these were heard using my DIY planar magnetic drivers and headphones
Many would consider this not a good idea, but after finding out that I managed to make my DIY planar drivers have an impedance curve nearly identical to a dynamic driver, it also has the same properties with different output impedances. This means the tubes can affect the sound just as much as dynamic drivers.
(Impedance is 42 Ohm, sensitivity is 108dB/mW)
1692819117213.png

I did not experience any distortion issues, low volume or anything bad using planars. (Even with EF91 tubes)

m.y. = Manufacturing Year

Power Tubes
The main thing I noticed is, that Power Tubes mainly affect the bass and that is about it.
JJ 6SN7 (m.y. 2021)
These JJ 6SN7 tubes are quite incredible for their cost and a fairly small size. They really made the sound quite a bit more punchy in the bass.
PSVANE UK-6SN7 (m.y. 2023)
I have not seen these tubes mentioned a lot - honestly I didn't expect much of a change and one of the reasons I got them was simply the 300B look they have. But then I turned on the amplifier with them and I was genuinely surprised! The bass felt way smoother compared to the JJ ones. (smoother in the way that it did not feel as if it jumped up and down in a few different places under 100 Hz). One more thing I noticed is the subbass being able to go a lot deeper.


Driver Tubes
Now this is where a lot of the fun comes in! The driver tubes change the sound from the ground up.
Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV (m.y. 1955) (EF95)

After reading the article for the first time, I was thinking for a very long time which tubes I'll end up going with. I'm glad I went with the Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV. It's a very safe choice. The soundstage is great (definitely not the widest though), the imaging is very precise. I found the bass not being super punchy with these, but it was very warm and pleasant to listen to. The mids felt very focused and smooth. The treble sometimes felt a bit bright in some areas, but in some of them it felt darker - safe to say, it was quite a rollercoaster in the treble area. In the end they were the most solid state sounding tubes out of the bunch with there not being a very big difference compared to my Topping EX5. If someone's new to the tube rolling, I can safely recommend these tubes.

Mullard M8161 (EF92 text on tube) (m.y. unknown) (EF92)
The main post is very much accurate. The first time I listened to these, I was like WOW, that's some incredibly quiet background. It makes a lot of instruments sound different than what I was used to thanks to that quietness in the background. The soundstage is way wider compared to the 6ZH1P-EV, the imaging doesn't feel as precise though. The bass is very smooth, it feels like there is a slight boost in the 80-150 Hz area making it quite punchy when the song wants it to be punchy. The mids are just incredible - vocals sound amazing (maybe a bit too close to the ear), the instruments sound incredibly realistic. This tube definitely leans to a warmer sound focused mainly on the mids. The treble is where I unfortuneately start to consider these tubes a bit more on the boring side. In a way, it feels like there is a high shelf filter making the treble go down a few dB and then back up at around 15kHz. I'd consider this tube if you plan to listen for long hours as the darker treble really helps with making the sound pleasant for a long listening time.

Brimar EF91 (Yellow T) (m.y. 1960) (EF91)
The tubes that come directly from the Swiss army - quite a nice origin. If you've read the main post, you know what stands out about these - but if you don't, it's the unique bass. While reading it, it was very hard for me to imagine what exactly is meant by "unique." The moment I put them into the amp and played the first song, I finally understood it. It's not easy to explain, it might actually be near impossible. It's very fun, but uncontrolled, it completely ignores the speed of the planar magnetic drivers. It is the most fun bass I've had out of the tubes I've tried until now. The bass is combined with incredibly wide soundstage, where I could actually feel the distance of instruments from the ear. The imaging felt very precise, though I must say, with these everything in a way felt as if it was coming a bit more from the back of my head instead of all around. The mids on these tubes is very pleasant to listen to - it slightly leans to the warmer side with incredible vocals. With this tube I probably felt the most actual seperation of all the instruments (not to say the other tubes were doing a bad job, all of them do an amazing job, but I found this one to stand out). The treble is interesting - it's definitely brighter in some areas, but it never got sibilant or unpleasant to listen to - rather it made a lot of very small details stand out a lot. I actually noticed stuff in music I did not notice before even through my Topping EX5. This is the tube I'd recommend to anyone if they're looking for an incredibly fun sound with a bit of a different treble.


TLDR
Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV: Most solid state like sound with incredible vocals
Mullard M8161 (EF92 text): The best performer in mids, darker in the treble
Brimar EF91 (Yellow T): A very fun tube with unique bass performance.


My personal favorite combo
PSVANE UK-6SN7 + Brimar EF91
1692819198549.png


I hope it was interesting to read to at least some of you and that it might help you make your next choice (or your first one if you're new here)
 
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Aug 24, 2023 at 11:09 AM Post #13,286 of 13,432
Are the 5654/6AK5 in MKIII/MKIV wired in series or parallel? Asking for a friend :)
Heaters are wired in parallel, if that's what your asking.
 
Aug 25, 2023 at 9:00 PM Post #13,287 of 13,432
Is is possible to use NE408a/WE408a tubes with the MKIV SE ?
(I got the NE408a tubes with the LD1+) and they fit into MKIV SE.

I tried them with the EF95 setting but no glow/no sound...

edit:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide.563884/post-9562075
"The WE408A is a 20V filament tube so the front driver tube voltage is modified to 6.3V for the M8100. The rear 6H30PI has a different pin-out and characteristics from the E182CC. At this point we are completely out of the E182CC vacuum tubes, and we have a few months supply of the 6H30PI left. Therefore all MK IV SE from this point on will be M8100 and 6H30PI version until we run out of 6H30PI tubes, at which point the MK IV SE will be discontinued. I hope this helps!"

But it is from 2013...
 
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Aug 26, 2023 at 12:39 AM Post #13,288 of 13,432
Is is possible to use NE408a/WE408a tubes with the MKIV SE ?
(I got the NE408a tubes with the LD1+) and they fit into MKIV SE.

I tried them with the EF95 setting but no glow/no sound...

edit:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide.563884/post-9562075
"The WE408A is a 20V filament tube so the front driver tube voltage is modified to 6.3V for the M8100. The rear 6H30PI has a different pin-out and characteristics from the E182CC. At this point we are completely out of the E182CC vacuum tubes, and we have a few months supply of the 6H30PI left. Therefore all MK IV SE from this point on will be M8100 and 6H30PI version until we run out of 6H30PI tubes, at which point the MK IV SE will be discontinued. I hope this helps!"

But it is from 2013..
 
Aug 26, 2023 at 10:47 AM Post #13,289 of 13,432
Is is possible to use NE408a/WE408a tubes with the MKIV SE ?
(I got the NE408a tubes with the LD1+) and they fit into MKIV SE.

I tried them with the EF95 setting but no glow/no sound...

edit:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide.563884/post-9562075
"The WE408A is a 20V filament tube so the front driver tube voltage is modified to 6.3V for the M8100. The rear 6H30PI has a different pin-out and characteristics from the E182CC. At this point we are completely out of the E182CC vacuum tubes, and we have a few months supply of the 6H30PI left. Therefore all MK IV SE from this point on will be M8100 and 6H30PI version until we run out of 6H30PI tubes, at which point the MK IV SE will be discontinued. I hope this helps!"

But it is from 2013...
Not without using modified socket savers and an external power source for the heaters. They are not worth the time or effort IMHO.
 
Aug 27, 2023 at 2:16 AM Post #13,290 of 13,432
Are double triode power tubes with dissimilar triodes likely to play well or poorly in the Little Dot MKIII? They produce good audio on some gear. For example the 6EM7 .9Ah has the same pinout as a 6SN7.
 
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