Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide
Nov 17, 2014 at 4:17 PM Post #8,296 of 13,432
You are most welcome MIKELAP!
Excellent tutorial. I am glad that it all worked out, they have Zero hum and look great to boot!
beerchug.gif

 
Nov 17, 2014 at 4:19 PM Post #8,297 of 13,432
WARNING!!!... Possible C3g problems...
 
It looks like my initial disaster with 2 Ss wasn't down to my workmanship on the adapters after all....I have been racking my brains as to what could possibly have caused them to go 'pop' and crack - now I know!!
 
There is obviously a weakness in the pin/glass boundary, whether general or batch-specific, because as I just tried to (carefully) work another S into a (tight) socket...CRACK...breaking glass, and instant death of course.
 
So all I can suggest is you loosen those socket pin connectors as best you can, by working them with something a shade larger, and be ULTRA careful when inserting the tube - with the least lateral movement possible...then PRAY.
 
I cannot believe this turn of events, but is obviously something that needs our utmost care and attention because there is no way of gaining prior warning, of course...
 
Nov 17, 2014 at 4:27 PM Post #8,298 of 13,432
 

C3g ADAPTER TUTORIAL FOR LITTLE DOT MK3 AMP​

First of all many thanks to Troll Dragon for helping me out with this project and for the schematic .

*ATTEMPT THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK*

My advice to you is that pictures #1 and #2 should be on your screen or printed out as you will reference them often during build.  Have fun.
REMEMBER ON 7 PIN SOCKETS PINS ARE INVERTED (FOR EXAMPLE PIN #7 ON PICTURE TOP VIEW BECOMES PIN#1 WHEN SOCKET IS FLIPPED OVER) READ BELOW.
                                                                 
                                                  
                                                 
                                                 
                           #5                        
 

                                                              MAKING PINS FOR YOUR 7 PIN SOCKETS

                                                       
                                                 What I did is buy a roll of 1/32¨or 1 mm diameter copper wire that I straightened out with a drill and a vise or a pair of vise grips as shown in this video.
 
                                                                               
 
Of course you will need to make 14 - 7/8¨ long pins (22.22 mm), once cut you will need to remove the burrs on both sides of the pins with a piece of sandpaper, its better than a file. Next insert your pins into the sockets using a pair of long nose pliers your fingers will thank you for it .  That was fun right, yes patience is a virtue.
 
                                                                                  
Next make sure you already had at least 2 coffees before attempting this because you will need to be fast lol. Its hot glue time. This is the way I do it. First you separate pin straightener from 7 pin socket like on picture, position the socket assembly between your fingers in a way that you can rotate the whole assembly 360 degrees when applying hot glue around the whole piece, then you squish the 2 pieces together holding them there for a minute or so or till glue hardens. Remember you gotta be fast!  Then trim off the excess glue.
                                                     
 

                                                                               CUTTING COPPER CASING

                                                     
This piece is referred to as a copper reducer 1¨ to 1/2¨ actual sizes are approx 1.025¨ x 5/8¨ inch or 26 mm x 15.8 mm approx. Luckily the only operation that is required to do on the copper reducer is to shorten the length, once cut our piece should be around 1 3/16¨ (about 30 mm) tall.  The main thing is to try and cut the piece straight. You can use a saw but more than likely it will cut crooked you will have to use a file to straighten the piece out.  What I tried is this,  I found a socket extender that fits into the smaller diameter of the piece. It was a bit loose so I put a small piece of electrical tape around it so now the socket extender fits snugly into the copper casing. Then I wrap the 2 pieces with more electrical tape so they don't separate. Then I insert the square part into the drill chuck and tighten. That part of it is solved.
                                                     
Next what I use is a grinder with a cutting disk. To hold down the drill i used my adjustable work bench. I taped the speed button on the drill so I don't have to press on it myself .  If you have a reversible drill make sure it turns in the opposite direction of your grinder as it will cut better.  BE CAREFUL WHEN DOING THIS!  ALWAYS 2 HANDS ON THE GRINDER!
 

                                                                SOLDERING WIRES TO 7 PIN SOCKET

                                  
Cut your 14 - 28 gauge wires 11/8¨ long and apply solder to each end of wires as it will be easier to solder them to lugs on the sockets.  Always check the connection you've just soldered with your multimeter. When your finished connecting them all or after each wire is soldered and tested, I slide a piece of shrink wrap over each wire and use the soldering iron to shrink the tubing.  Now it is possibly best to twist heater wires #4 and #5 and WRAP THEM IN A FOIL to isolate them and hopefully prevent hum. REMEMBER WHEN LOOKING UNDER THE SOCKET POSITIONS ARE INVERTED, refer to picture #2.

 

                                                CONNECTING YOUR 7 PIN SOCKET TO THE LOCTAL SOCKET

                                                               
I use a PanaVise to hold the assembly, I like this vise it swivels and is very versatile. You might also need was is called a Third Hand as this to can be very useful to hold the small parts like in picture #5
                                         
part12.jpg

Your multimeter will be very handy for the next step. Insert 7 pin socket in copper casing and put in your vise, then you will need to find with your tester the wire you want to solder, refer to picture #1 and #2.  Before soldering insert a piece of shrink wrap on the wire and push it up the wire, not doing so will shrink the tubing in the wrong place when you solder the wire to the lug. If you cannot use shrink wrap, use electrical tape to isolate each wire from one another. After soldering the wires to the lugs, tape around all the wires to isolate them from the copper pipe. Once finished prepare a batch of JBweld epoxy resin apply to lenght of socket then push the socket into the pipe and tape it in place.let dry  Then retest all the connections to make sure everything is ok.  To finish the adapter i use 1 3/16¨or 30 mm dia.(3:1) shrink wrap with glue already inside the membrane. This will cover the upper part of copper pipe and overlap the loctal socket  without covering the pin holes. To cover the 7 pin sockets use 3/4¨ inch shrink wrap with glue inside if you cannot find wrap with glue, you can always use contact cement The shrink wrap should keep the sockets in place . What i do to shrink the wrap is use my soldering iron this way adapter does not heat up to much . To finish this tutorial i would recommend against removing the C3G tube to often from adapter as the Loctal socket might come apart from copper casing  .I noticed tube is very hard to remove  so if removing make shure you hold on to socket .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                  
                                So this is the finish product if you need any information or clarifications on how to make this adapter dont hesitate to contact me .Thanks guys . Michel (MIKELAP)
 

 
Great work, M!
 
Further to your (and my) comments on the tightness of the sockets we use, I have just posted a warning that relates directly to this aspect which I now know for sure is VERY BAD NEWS for either all C3g or just certain batches...please read...
 
Nov 17, 2014 at 4:31 PM Post #8,299 of 13,432
  WARNING!!!... Possible C3g problems...
 
It looks like my initial disaster with 2 Ss wasn't down to my workmanship on the adapters after all....I have been racking my brains as to what could possibly have caused them to go 'pop' and crack - now I know!!
 
There is obviously a weakness in the pin/glass boundary, whether general or batch-specific, because as I just tried to (carefully) work another S into a (tight) socket...CRACK...breaking glass, and instant death of course.
 
So all I can suggest is you loosen those socket pin connectors as best you can, by working them with something a shade larger, and be ULTRA careful when inserting the tube - with the least lateral movement possible...then PRAY.
 
I cannot believe this turn of events, but is obviously something that needs our utmost care and attention because there is no way of gaining prior warning, of course...

My feeling exactly i saw this type of socket looks better and you spread apart 2 plates instead of lining the pins in the holes . Like i said the less you remove them the better  .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
 
Nov 17, 2014 at 6:47 PM Post #8,301 of 13,432

Well I am not planning on building a C3g  adapter any time soon, but nevertheless that picture above MIKELAP posted has been bugging me. I have been following the discussions here my understanding was the C3g   tube is a single pentode used as a single triode in the little dot III and IV amplifiers. I didn't understand it to be a double anything pentode or triode or anything else, but that picture seems to be indicating  it is a double or at least an adapter that goes in both seven pin tube sockets. Please and is confusion. It's just bugging me.
 
Nov 17, 2014 at 7:05 PM Post #8,302 of 13,432
 
Well I am not planning on building a C3g  adapter any time soon, but nevertheless that picture above MIKELAP posted has been bugging me. I have been following the discussions here my understanding was the C3g   tube is a single pentode used as a single triode in the little dot III and IV amplifiers. I didn't understand it to be a double anything pentode or triode or anything else, but that picture seems to be indicating  it is a double or at least an adapter that goes in both seven pin tube sockets. Please and is confusion. It's just bugging me.

This picture only indicates pin numbering  it is not a C3G adapter 
 
Nov 17, 2014 at 11:19 PM Post #8,303 of 13,432
Hi Mikelap,
 
Congrats on the detailed tutorial and great pictures; obviously a lot of work went into this - great presentation.
 
To me it is a little intimidating because you need much more than a screw driver LOL.
 
Hi hypnos 1,
 
Re the breakage issues with the C3g tubes it has me worried. I already lost a C3gS tube, and it was not abused in any way. After having rolled tubes many hundreds of times I never had any tube break while rolling it until now with the Siemens C3g.
 
The crack in the glass is clearly visible, and the white getter flash indicates loss of vacuum. The metal tube shield  as well as the metal loctal base have been removed in this picture.

 
The loctal base is not attached to the tube at all, but only held in place by crimping the metal tube shield to the base. Possibly this arrangement allows for some movement of the glass tube inside the metal jacket. If the pins are pushed hard because of a tight tube socket, the glass may be pushed against the tube shield, resulting in breakage, Or maybe the glass envelope is fragile in general.
 
It could be that the traditional way of removing a tube by wiggling it from side to side (tube rolling) should be avoided with this tube, and that it should just be lifted out straight up. This may be difficult to do with a tight fit. In the past we used rubber fingers to remove the small 6AK5 style tubes. Maybe a bigger piece or some kind of rubber grip should be used. Does anybody have advice on this?
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 9:49 AM Post #8,304 of 13,432
  Hi Mikelap,
 
Congrats on the detailed tutorial and great pictures; obviously a lot of work went into this - great presentation.
 
To me it is a little intimidating because you need much more than a screw driver LOL.
 
Hi hypnos 1,
 
Re the breakage issues with the C3g tubes it has me worried. I already lost a C3gS tube, and it was not abused in any way. After having rolled tubes many hundreds of times I never had any tube break while rolling it until now with the Siemens C3g.
 
The crack in the glass is clearly visible, and the white getter flash indicates loss of vacuum. The metal tube shield  as well as the metal loctal base have been removed in this picture.

 
The loctal base is not attached to the tube at all, but only held in place by crimping the metal tube shield to the base. Possibly this arrangement allows for some movement of the glass tube inside the metal jacket. If the pins are pushed hard because of a tight tube socket, the glass may be pushed against the tube shield, resulting in breakage, Or maybe the glass envelope is fragile in general.
 
It could be that the traditional way of removing a tube by wiggling it from side to side (tube rolling) should be avoided with this tube, and tit should just be lifted out straight up. This may be difficult to do with a tight fit. In the past we used rubber fingers to remove the small 6AK5 style tubes. Maybe a bigger piece or some kind of rubber grip should be used. Does anybody have advice on this?

First of all thanks mordy for your support ,and yes it was alot of work but fun at the same time . About the C3G tube removal what i did to remove tube from adapter was to first of all remove adapter from LD then i simply use a small flat screwdriver  by inserting screwdriver between tube and socket and twist  screwdriver from side to side slowly lifting up the tube a section at a time and go all around the tube and eventually it comes out i feel its way safer than pulling it out by hand . But i wont be removing tube to often will just leave it there thats even better i think.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                    
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 11:40 AM Post #8,306 of 13,432
  Hi Mikelap,
 
Had the same idea about taking out the adapter from the socket and using a flat blade screw driver when I woke up this morning LOL. We'll see how the tube fares......

Bad news a C3GS just went dead tried another it works,looks like those tubes are very fragile  .I might add it was a new tube that died ,right now i have the use pair on will see how that goes .
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 12:07 PM Post #8,307 of 13,432
  Bad news a C3GS just went dead tried another it works,looks like those tubes are very fragile  .I might add it was a new tube that died ,right now i have the use pair on will see how that goes .

Good thing you got them cheap and not for the high price from eBay.... 
rolleyes.gif

 
Nov 18, 2014 at 12:19 PM Post #8,308 of 13,432
The tube is cracked on the bottom probably when i put it in.  Damm!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

 
Nov 18, 2014 at 12:21 PM Post #8,309 of 13,432
Nov 18, 2014 at 12:53 PM Post #8,310 of 13,432
  Bad news a C3GS just went dead tried another it works,looks like those tubes are very fragile  .I might add it was a new tube that died ,right now i have the use pair on will see how that goes .

 
Sorry for your loss (my count is now 3 Ss - 2 at ebay prices! 
frown.gif
),
 
Yep, M, as I mentioned - the pin/glass boundary is definitely rather weak, which is VERY surprising given how well made the tube appears otherwise. Those tight sockets are just too much for it.
 
Luckily the remedy is very simple - the hole connectors can be widened  by working a small 1.5mm screwdriver (like those in (cheap) sets for repairing spectacles etc.) in and out until not much force is needed to insert it ...et voila, the tube can be pushed in STRAIGHT with no need to 'work/wiggle' it, which of course (now we know, lol!) is what has been the problem all along...It can even be pulled out straight with no need for killer side to side force - if necessary!!
 
If only I had twigged this with my first disaster....but such is life...???!!!
wink.gif

 

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