[stuck limo]

Curious....dealers want LHL shut down? How many dealers? What counties? Do these people realize that LHL is bankrupt and can no longer stand on it's own? LHL is effectively shutdown anyway.

They want LH Labs to abandon projects [LH Labs has not abandoned any projects yet] and officially announce the division is dead/over. Backers never get anything at all in that scenario, ever. All hope is (officially) lost in that scenario. There may or may not be ways around this...at this point it's unknown but ideas are being discussed for production/shipping/fulfillment. Larry is unwilling to end LH Labs and continues to keep LH Labs around to produce what backers paid for. Whether one agrees with that path (some backers do, others do not) is a matter of personal belief system.

Saying LHL is in "production" really isn't true. The Wave is not a product and the Source is here and there only. It is just piecemeal shipping.

Production: development, research, production in factories. It's a catch-all. Let's not play semantics with words. We all know what "production" means in relation to LH Labs.

Given your foreshadowing of "maybe ever" it does seem even more unlikely these campaigns will ever pay out.

I do believe attempts are being made to finish products. Whether those attempts are/will be/not successful now/later/ever, I can't comment.

If Larry is only now "acknowledging" the problems then he has been totally out of touch for years.

He's always acknowledged the issues to me.

Refunds

Re: Refunds....it's been discussed and for a variety of reasons, there are plusses and cons to both refunds/not having refunds. At this time I cannot comment on any final decisions on refunds. They may or may not happen still but if they do, that will be announced.

 

[judmarc]

As I've noted before, because there's a markup on product, it is always cheaper to do that than to provide refunds. The fact that there are no products and not even partial refunds this late in the game indicates to me there's insufficient funding for either.

I doubt there will be a bankruptcy. That would mean providing backers and other creditors an entity against which to claim partial refunds, and if partial refunds were going to be done anyway, why not just do it without having to pay lawyers and court costs?

Just my thoughts/speculation, I'm not basing this on any hard information (other than lack of products, refunds, and any truly useful communication).

 

[Shawnb]

Larry should of gave up on the Wave years ago and focused on making everything else, maybe then we might of seen the HPA, PTP, and LPS’s. Now we will never see any of it.

What an utter cluster****

 

[jdog]

So, then let us all assume (? pretend) that Larry is a hard working, decent, brilliant audio engineer who had all the best intentions with his IGG campaigns. Due to many, many unforeseen complications/hurdles well beyond his control, he has now found himself so financially under water that he cannot possibly complete any of the IGG campaigns that several thousand honest, hardworking people backed. Again assuming that Larry is still in the prime of his creative audiophile career, I would imagine he is seeking some legal way to get out from this mess to salvage whatever he can for himself and his company. Unfortunately, this process might hurt everyone involved, even Larry, but it would be a legal way for him to move on with his career. So whether bankruptcy is in LH Labs future or not, I would still bet that Larry has a team of lawyers working to close down LH Labs, whether Larry "agrees" with them or not... In the end, the outcome appears to be the same for most (if not all) of those thousands of backers who put their complete trust and hard-earned money into Larry's "projects": no full refund, no partial refund, no product...NOTHING! So, instead of working thru a middle agent (Stuck Limo) who seems to get limited information from Larry and then passes on even less of that information to us, it would seem that Larry should personally come out and admit his failures and how he plans to deal with them... No more hard luck, empty updates on problems with batteries, cases and wifi/bluetooth... Enough, Larry enough!! You've had ample time to waste our money, and this embarrassing disaster has gone on for far too long. Larry, it's time you own up to your failures and take full responsibility for this mess you are in. Report directly to us. You owe us this much.

 

[stuck limo]

.

 

[Bill2112]

What do you want people to say? Come on. Do you realize it's been half a decade in June? People are sick of hearing the same thing. "Theoretically" we could get our stuff within another 5 years.

I don't want the Wave. I want my money back. Patronizing posters by saying you are "confused" by the sentiment here is, frankly, ridiculous. You yourself say there is no timeline, Jarek.

The sentiment is that there are no answers for anything. Even the so-called q&a is now just a video update.

The sentiment is that LH/LHL is totally incompetent with no real hope of getting anything done. You have provided ZERO evidence otherwise. Give us our money back....that is the sentiment.

 

[stuck limo]

Patronizing posters be being "confused" by the sentiment here is, frankly, ridiculous. .

No one was patronizing anyone. I asked a question: Barring refunds (which don't appear to be happening at this point), what do you want to happen: LH Labs to stay open and maybe get people what they ordered, or LH Labs to shut down and absolutely nothing gets received?

Either answer won't bother me either way, as it's a matter of personal preference and someone's opinion isn't likely to affect anything in the real world over this no matter what. Personally, I'd like to see LH Labs shut down and some other type of arrangement made for people to receive funds or gear.

 

[Bill2112]

You said (since it has been deleted):

"Still confused by the general sentiment here: do people want their stuff eventually [theoretically] (LH Labs stays open) or do people want LH Labs to shut down (and no one gets anything they paid for)?"

This is condescending and threatening....you know exactly that people are cheesed off. Hey....if you have no clue how people feel from reading, how about going to Survey Monkey and surveying all your customers?

 

[stuck limo]

This is condescending and threatening

Do you personally believe that, as of right now with the situation at hand, if LH Labs were to shut down, people would still receive their merchandise? (I don't believe they would, but maybe you have some information I don't)

To reiterate: Personally, I'd like to see LH Labs shut down and some other type of arrangement made for people to receive funds or gear. As of right now with the current situation that's not happening though.

 

[Bill2112]

I thought we weren't supposed to use the word "personally" here. Seeing as how you are ok with it now, do you personally feel that 5 years is good to not have anything done?

BTW...I have not asked for LHWhatever to close as I want my money back!

BTW...you never answered who these dealers are and where they are located. Have you been authorized to provide this information?

 

[stuck limo]

I thought we weren't supposed to use the word "personally" here. Seeing as how you are ok with it now, do you personally feel that 5 years is good to not have anything done?

Of course not, absolutely no one in this situation agrees that it's a good thing nothing has been done. Literally everyone involved is in the same ocean, just different life rafts.The situation sucks, it's horrible, and zero people like it, nor is it "acceptable" by any stretch of the imagination, by any people involved.

BTW...I have not asked for LHWhatever to close as I want my money back!

I'd love both to happen, to be sure, or least a refund for you, most definitely.

BTW...you never answered who these dealers are and where they are located. Have you been authorized to provide this information?

There's dealers all over the world who handle Light Harmonic gear. Mostly in Europe/Asia. I've been told their sentiments many times and I don't know exactly who they are.

 

[MikeyFresh]

There's dealers all over the world who handle LH Labs gear.

No there aren't, but there are Light Harmonic dealers.

LH Labs was the direct-to-consumer crowd funded company whose funds were illegally diverted to manufacture Light Harmonic branded gear for distribution in Asia.

 

[stuck limo]

No there aren't, but there are Light Harmonic dealers.

You're correct. I mistyped.

 

[Bill2112]

It's funny that these nameless dealers wield so much power and yet are unknown to you. It would seem that that they are worried about their reputation with respect to their dealings with Larry. It also seems like it would behoove them to work with another nameless entity (the Asian investor) to get refunds out asap.

The alternative is to wait for years for this to end and potentially damage their own businesses. Make it happen, Jarek!

You're correct. I mistyped.

So now get it formalized that LH is under financial pressure as well....

Do you personally believe that, as of right now with the situation at hand, if LH Labs were to shut down, people would still receive their merchandise? (I don't believe they would, but maybe you have some information I don't)

To reiterate: Personally, I'd like to see LH Labs shut down and some other type of arrangement made for people to receive funds or gear. As of right now with the current situation that's not happening though.

What's the current situation....we know there are no products. This implies financial constraints, even after raising 5 million. Please elaborate as to the financial condition of LH and its ability to fund LHL....what is the Asian investor contributing?

[merged]

 

[jdog]

@stuck limo, I won't try to answer for anyone but myself... but I want finality from LH Labs. You have told us that LH Labs currently has insufficient funds to complete the Wave campaign, and LH Labs is "surviving" only by the good graces of Light Harmonic funding... Then you tell us that dealers around the world are "encouraging" Larry to close down LH Labs, but Larry is resisting this even though he knows that funds are not available...and then you tell us there are things you know from conversations with Larry that you are unable to pass along to us... that Larry and the crew are still working on the bluetooth/wifi for the Wave, even though there are no funds available to actually produce the Wave, even if the software part is ever miraculously completed. Then you readily admit that if LH Labs closes down, then all hope for any products or refunds to the backers is lost. But on the "bright side" Light Harmonic gets to carry on with its dealers, even if LH Labs closes down... You must admit that all this may be pretty mind-numbing/upsetting to many that follow this thread. With all due respect, the Wave campaign appears to be dead, and the real truth is that no one is ever going to get a Wave or a refund... You seem to have told us this much already. I just want this whole mess to end ASAP. Too many people have been harmed by the Wave campaign, and it's way past time for Larry to come up with a reasonable resolution for each and every backer and to end the misery for all of us. So please keep this in mind the next time you confer with Larry... just in case he needs a reminder.