Light Harmonic Geek Wave

[wingsounds13]

I don't want a $400 DAP, I want something worth the $700+ that I contributed towards my Wave X128 femto, THD, dual DAC, AQ2M, WiFi, Bluetooth that I contributed for. I want a DAP worth at least the $500+ towards my Wave X128 dual DAC, AQ2M, WiFi, Bluetooth that I contributed for.

In short, I want my Waves that it appears may actually start shipping in six to eight months. Yes, this is a good year and a half later than even the most conservative estimates predicted, but I truly do expect to receive the products that I backed. Even though they may not have the very latest and greatest gee whiz just released last week DAC chip, we do know that Larry and company can produce excellent results with the still current and still most recent mobile version of the DAC chip that all of LH Labs current products are using.

Patience (is wearing thin - even for me). Pushing for information and completion of this project is good, but all of the harping and calling them liars is not. Incompetent at project planning and communication they are, but not truly trying to deceive.

J.P.

 

[ron spencer]

As I said before, my only interest is that I was going to back this unit but did not. In looking over comments here, at IGG and LHL forums, I'm not so sure people think they are liars. But people are mad at the total lack of communication and simple planning. LHL does not even answer questions in their own forums hardly. I think those who bought the high end unit will get something this year. The rest will not it seems. So much of this could have been avoided by simple communication. If it truly is incompetence on this side that is one thing. But if it is because LHL CHOSE to behave this way, then that points to something far crazier with the company...I hope people get their units, but this company is sure hard to figure out.

 

[wingsounds13]

I don't know if people truly think that LH Labs are liars, but I do see the word thrown around a lot. I tend to take people at their word unless (as one prominent national political figure has proven) they give me substantial reason to believe otherwise.

In the early days Larry Ho was good at casual communication but as things got busier his communication became more restricted. I don't know if the current lack of communication from LH Labs is incompetence, a choice or simply a lack of direction. At this point I cannot guess which is the greater factor.

I know that I am lousy at project planning, and LH Labs seems to have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are. They seem competent at product development, but there is apparently no schedule in their development process. I can only guess that they have finally figured this out and this is why they refuse to publish any kind of schedule. In the past, when they have published a schedule and have not been able to even keep close to it, they have been lambasted by the community. Now, they do not publish a schedule and are lambasted by the community. I can only guess that they feel less abused at being trashed for not publishing a schedule than they do for publishing a schedule and not being able to keep to it. What can you do when you are damned if you do and damned if you don't? I think that most of us would go into hiding as they have done.

Again, LH Labs has proven two things very clearly. One is that they can do a very good job of product development. The other is that they are utterly incapable of doing so on any kind of schedule. This may work fine for products that are not in the public awareness, but is about as bad as it can get when there is public participation. Hopefully they will just go to the traditional mode of developing new products in secret and only announcing them when they are ready to ship.

J.P.

 

[ron spencer]

@ J.P.
 
You bring up salient points, but if a company needs to get money up front in such a public way as IGG, then they need to have some sort of plan ready...developing in secret requires cash up front, which LHL obviously didn't have. I do not know what type of schedule they had in the past that they were lambasted for, but having a schedule is more important than no schedule.
 
For example, they could say "Week 30 Design Battery", "Week 31 are the results of the desgn and issues", "Week 32 Procurement of Battery", "Week 33 Issues from Week 32 and potential mitigants", etc. This is simplistic for sure, but looking at their updates, they seem to have a lot of marketing lingo in them (i.e. pushing harder, etc) as opposed to tangible results/issues/risks and risk mitigating factors. So who knows.
 
They can't expect to keep people waiting forever. But you are right, they have great ideas, they just need somebody to run the company.

 

[spyder1]

I don't know if people truly think that LH Labs are liars, but I do see the word thrown around a lot. I tend to take people at their word unless (as one prominent national political figure has proven) they give me substantial reason to believe otherwise.

In the early days Larry Ho was good at casual communication but as things got busier his communication became more restricted. I don't know if the current lack of communication from LH Labs is incompetence, a choice or simply a lack of direction. At this point I cannot guess which is the greater factor.

I know that I am lousy at project planning, and LH Labs seems to have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are. They seem competent at product development, but there is apparently no schedule in their development process. I can only guess that they have finally figured this out and this is why they refuse to publish any kind of schedule. In the past, when they have published a schedule and have not been able to even keep close to it, they have been lambasted by the community. Now, they do not publish a schedule and are lambasted by the community. I can only guess that they feel less abused at being trashed for not publishing a schedule than they do for publishing a schedule and not being able to keep to it. What can you do when you are damned if you do and damned if you don't? I think that most of us would go into hiding as they have done.

Again, LH Labs has proven two things very clearly. One is that they can do a very good job of product development. The other is that they are utterly incapable of doing so on any kind of schedule. This may work fine for products that are not in the public awareness, but is about as bad as it can get when there is public participation. Hopefully they will just go to the traditional mode of developing new products in secret and only announcing them when they are ready to ship.

J.P.

​J.P.,
 
It has been over 3.5 years since the Geek Out, and 3 years since the orginal Geek Wave campaign. You can measure intelligence and growth in a company by observing learning, and adaptability. If Larry Ho, isn't a good communicator, then he hires or delegates the responsibility to someone else. If there are continuous problems with project deadlines, and shipping, then Larry Ho needs to fire and bring in someone more responsible to the job position. 3.5 years and LH Labs has not improved since Geek Out V1. "Scary Clowns" are still running LH Labs. Unless a better, more professional team is brought in to do the day to day operations, IGG Wave backers may be in for an INFINITE WAIT.

 

[jdog]

@wingsounds13,
 
Although I truly respect your opinion, I do hold a different opinion re: LH labs and the truth.  I am not trying to judge Larry and his company in its present form; I don't think Larry is lying now, but he is clearly in deep over his head in the product development phase, and I hope for all backers' sakes that he is able to get the Wave R&D completed and the Wave (in its multiple variations) produced at some point soon.  But, in the original campaign, it is pretty clear to me that LH Labs was deceitful and outright misleading with advertising in their push to get people to join the campaign and snatch up every "perk" they threw out.  The original video clearly implied there was a functioning prototype of the Wave that was "blowing" all their testers' (? actors) music-loving minds...  I think you can still see the video on the IGG page with Gavin claiming the Wave would be on the retail market by July 2015...  By my definition, their advertising campaign was a complete lie and time has clearly shown this to be the case.  I guess we can all hold Casey and Gavin responsible for the original lie, but as head of the company, Larry is still responsible... It's too bad that Larry has never admitted that they lied, instead of just saying that the project is more difficult than he thought...  I don't even know if apologies would help at this point, but LH Labs is going to have to work extremely hard to earn any smidgen of credibility back, as far as I'm concerned....

 

[wingsounds13]

Valid points by all, and there is little to refute. I accept that there was some level of deceit in the Wave campaigns, but also believe that they have always held full intent to deliver product - and not just an adequate product but an excellent product. Larry was unfortunately under he influence of a very effective marketer whose honor is at least as questionable as that of the proverbial used car salesman. This may have enhanced the coffers of LH labs in the early days but I suspect will ultimately cost them in lack of market respect, slow acceptance and slower growth for some years to come.

That said, open and clear communication could have substantially reduced the ill feelings that they have rightfully generated amongst the backers of the Wave (and other) campaigns. I do respect that they had the will to scrap existing Wave designs at least twice in the development process because they would ultimately not meet Larry's and LH Labs performance objectives which do seem to be fairly high. Telling us of these development redirects as they occurred would have helped their case considerably. Not doing so as they chose to do has not protected them as I think they may have thought, rather exposed them to the dissent that we see today. In one sense I am glad that they twice discarded substandard designs as the product that we will eventually receive will be much better than it otherwise would have been. Still, these substantial delays are trying even my patience which you may have observed up until recently is substantial. Even I have my limits. I sincerely hope that they are able to deliver to the bulk of the Wave backers before the end of this year. If they contract manufacturing to a large firm in China as was hinted some time back, there is a remote chance that this could happen but even I hold little hope that it does.

Just finish the project and get the damn thing out Larry! If the last updates are anywhere close to the truth then this project should be completed and in production within six months or so. If not, then even your word starts to come into question. If you are not able to meet our projected timeline then present one of your own - reasonable, reasoned and clear as to why and what is taking so long. This is not a secret venture and your companies and your own honor and integrity are vulnerable.

J.P.

 

[dblml320]

What concerns me is that after 3 years there is no visible sense of urgency. It really makes me wonder if they have squandered the Geek Wave IGG money and cannot fund the manufacturing process.

 

[doctorjazz]

Hard to say there's no visible sign of urgency...there's no visible sign of ANYTHING!

 

[wingsounds13]

I think that the problem is that there is no sense of urgency. LH Labs owner, CEO and lead design engineer Larry Ho is a hobbyist who is now designing consumer equipment. His goal is product performance and has no allegiance to a timeline. Again, this is okay when the customer has no awareness of the development process, only release and sale of the final product. Perhaps in the future they could use crowdfunding to pay for gearing up for production only after the design is finished and ready for production . Any other approach to crowdfunding is almost certain to get them deeper into the **** that they find themselves in today because of the way that the company works. In truth, outside of their crowdfunding issues the only other real issue that I see with LH Labs is their customer support. If they can stay away from crowdfunding and fix their multiple customer support issues then LH Labs could possibly strong and long lived company. Yes, there are reliability issues with their early products but I think that they are learning how to design for mass production and reliability. This is one reason that I am somewhat less bothered with the Wave being redesigned several times and the resultant delay in delivery. Still... even I can't wait forever.

J.P.

 

[mscott58]

Remember they also make the Da Vinci DAC, which should hopefully provide cashflow for the various projects. Cheers

 

[doctorjazz]

Ya think they sell 50 of them $30k dacs a month?

 

[mscott58]

Ya think they sell 50 of them $30k dacs a month?

Last I heard they had a waiting list...

 

[doctorjazz]

Really...

 

[mscott58]

Last I heard!