Life after Yggdrasil?

[TCaughey]

I'm interested to hear your impressions. After comparing the MSB and EMM, I purchased the latter, and traded my dCS.

 

[Torq]

I'm interested to hear your impressions. After comparing the MSB and EMM, I purchased the latter, and traded my dCS.

 
It'll be at least several weeks before I get to listen to anything else at this point - though I probably won't wait until I've completed all of the remaining auditions to begin posting impressions this time.
 
And then a fair amount depends on how well things go on my trip.  I might stay gone longer than I'm initially planning and just spend more time underwater.  Lots of variables, including when I actually leave.  I should have been gone already.  Now that's looking like Monday ...

 

[arnaud]

All good then.
And 100% agreed about the inovative products. If I was to pay $10+k for a Dac, it'll surely be something like Dave. They took a big leap in tech terms and sounds like they got it right too (wont comment about the same as big leap in funky design).

I haven't followed the chord threads, what is the jump in tech innovation shown with the dave? I know it uses fgpa to do all signal conditioning but that's fairly common these days afaik.

Actually, given the praise, I am keen on checking the Dave for myself but I just wont spend a penny for chord's gaudy designs.

Take the example of this beautiful OLED they use:
https://goo.gl/images/1DNcn0

What do they do, they put these flashy colors and magnify it through this curved circular glass that tuncates the letters at the edge? Who can find that well designed?!

Now, if they sold their board as oem to a company that knows how to design, and for a fairer price (maybe dropping the machined aluminum block would help given the ludicrous price of the stand!), I'd certainly want to secure one for audition...

Arnaud

 

[noshortcuts]

I agree that Chord stuff is not attractive aesthetically as audio gear. I just don't want the visual noise because it is unrelated to listening to music and can be distracting, no matter how cool or unique. So for me, the mark-ups in price related to these unique looks are not worth it. Now, if they packaged the board in a more understated box, I'd be more tempted to pay a premium for the sound.

 

[Dillan]

Haha! I kinda agree.. It looks like something you'd find underwater. What's the point of that display anyway

 

[ToroFiestaSol]

Just found this nice picture of Chord Dave
 

 

[x RELIC x]

I haven't followed the chord threads, what is the jump in tech innovation shown with the dave? I know it uses fgpa to do all signal conditioning but that's fairly common these days afaik.

Actually, given the praise, I am keen on checking the Dave for myself but I just wont spend a penny for chord's gaudy designs.

Take the example of this beautiful OLED they use:
https://goo.gl/images/1DNcn0

What do they do, they put these flashy colors and magnify it through this curved circular glass that tuncates the letters at the edge? Who can find that well designed?!

Now, if they sold their board as oem to a company that knows how to design, and for a fairer price (maybe dropping the machined aluminum block would help given the ludicrous price of the stand!), I'd certainly want to secure one for audition...

Arnaud

The DAVE is using Xilinx's newest Spartan 6 FPGA chip vs the one in Hugo/Hugo TT (apparently it's HUGE and takes up most of the space under the heat sink/screen) with 166 DSP cores running in parallel just for Rob's WTA filter. This includes the 164,000 TAPs in the filter compared to 26,000 TAPs in the Hugo/Hugo TT if you want some sort of metric. Nobody is doing their filter the way Rob is doing it, just like Schiit is doing their filter their way. Even though other companies also use FPGA chips the FPGA is a blank slate chip to use as you see fit and that is about where the similarities end with other FPGA implementations.

With regard to improved sound, of course that many more TAPs in the DAVE doesn't mean it will sound that much better as a 1:1 ratio but there is a lot work in what Rob has done to his filter on the DAVE, as well as a new Pulse Array DAC implementation vs the Mojo's/Hugo's/Hugo TT's Pulse Array implementation (he invented the discrete Pulse Array DAC years ago). Many reports focus on the uncanny depth perception and timing accuracy of the DAVE, with more of a solid foundation to the music over the previous designs by Rob. He has said numerous times that the DAVE was not driven by a cost target, but rather an engineering one. Once he was finished with the engineering then Chord applied their usual cost metric, put together a typical Chord casing (love it or hate it), and that was the price of the DAVE.

The DAVE thread has an abundance of information from Rob on what the sonic improvements are from his perspective. Worth reading IMO. Almost every report and personal discussion about the DAVE that I've read from reviewers and owners has said the same thing. That is, "I can't believe music could sound this good" and this compared with other TOTL DACs, not your typical afforadble DAC fare. Pretty universal praise from what I've seen, but I wouldn't expect everyone to feel the same way, and price/value is a personal threshold. Audition is of course the best solution, or read Torq's thread, lol.

Disclaimer: I bought one and personally love the look of the DAVE and, overall, I think the case design has minimal influence on the overall price. I'm tired of ugly boxes personally, but YMMV.

 

[prot]

I haven't followed the chord threads, what is the jump in tech innovation shown with the dave? I know it uses fgpa to do all signal conditioning but that's fairly common these days afaik.

Actually, given the praise, I am keen on checking the Dave for myself but I just wont spend a penny for chord's gaudy designs.

Take the example of this beautiful OLED they use:
https://goo.gl/images/1DNcn0

What do they do, they put these flashy colors and magnify it through this curved circular glass that tuncates the letters at the edge? Who can find that well designed?!

Now, if they sold their board as oem to a company that knows how to design, and for a fairer price (maybe dropping the machined aluminum block would help given the ludicrous price of the stand!), I'd certainly want to secure one for audition...

Arnaud

It goes a bit farther than that. AFAIK, Chord designed and implemented their own fpgas .. and new filters based on their own algorithms. Also the DA conversion is done by their own custom chips. Normally I wouldnt consider that stuff such big a leap .. they did not really revolutionize anything, just took extra steps in several directions. But they surely did way more than any other hifi producer I know of!
They took risks, went into unknown teritory and came back with something new .. and apparently very good too.
That's awfully rare in the hifi universe nowadays .. especially in the DA area .. and worthy of some plus points.

P.S.
I knew all that before but, in spite of all the plus-points, I found the price too out-there and didnt even consider an audition. But now, Torq's review made me wanna hear the Dave. Still doubt that I'll pay $15k for any Dac but who knows ...

 

[x RELIC x]

It goes a bit farther than that. AFAIK, Chord designed and implemented their own fpgas .. and new filters based on their own algorithms. Also the DA conversion is done by their own custom chips. Normally I wouldnt consider that stuff such big a leap .. they did not really revolutionize anything, just took extra steps in several directions. But they surely did way more than any other hifi producer I know of!
They took risks, went into unknown teritory and came back with something new .. and apparently very good too.
That's awfully rare in the hifi universe nowadays .. especially in the DA area .. and worthy of some plus points.

P.S.
I knew all that before but, in spite of all the plus-points, I found the price too out-there and didnt even consider an audition. But now, Torq's review made me wanna hear the Dave. Still doubt that I'll pay $15k for any Dac but who knows ...

No, they use Xilinx's newest Spartan 6 FPGA, which anyone can purchase for around $300 I believe. This one is much larger physically and computationally than the one used in the 2Qute, Hugo and Hugo TT. The key to the sound is the WTA filter and the discrete Pulse Array DACs (multiple).

As far as the filters and algorithms it's essentially Rob's life's work. LOTs of info in the DAVE thread if anyone is interested to know the facts.

Let's let Torq continue with his evaluations.

 

[grizzlybeast]

@Torq
 
Thanks to you... I picked up a lifatec cable for my Pavane. After much research prior to purchasing the PAVANE I walked away assuming the USB was a very well thought out piece of the PAVANES build, not being your average.
 
The Lifatec opens the sound up giving better layering, clarity, and airiness. 
 
The lifatec optical has helped me out a bit as a 'for now' solution because I was paining over immediately buying something like the rednet 3. I will enjoy it this way for a season and then upgrade later. 
 
I know it is off topic but big ups anyway.  

 

[Sauntere]

Hugely enjoying this thread...
 
I said once before it is one of the better thread on HeadFi.. nope... it's THE best..
 
How about adding a bit of fun... won't cost you anything Torq..
 
Stick a poll on the front as to which Dac we reckon you will end up with.
 
Those that have been following along from the beginning and get where your at could make a pretty good stab at it..
 
I have a front runner if i had to guess..... understanding there are a lot more comments and impressions to come from you which could change it.

 

[Khragon]

If polling it may become a self fulfilling prophecy. You may get pressure by tge masses

 

[Sauntere]

Yeah i thought of that but i think Torq is the type that wouldn't be influenced in the least..
 
Could be wrong though.. it was just a thought... probably not a good one. Certainly not constructive.. just fun.

 

[prot]

No, they use Xilinx's newest Spartan 6 FPGA, which anyone can purchase for around $300 I believe. This one is much larger physically and computationally than the one used in the 2Qute, Hugo and Hugo TT. The key to the sound is the WTA filter and the discrete Pulse Array DACs (multiple).

As far as the filters and algorithms it's essentially Rob's life's work. LOTs of info in the DAVE thread if anyone is interested to know the facts.

Let's let Torq continue with his evaluations.

Thanks for the Fpga correction. Is there some extra detail/documentation on those pulse array Dacs?

 

[x RELIC x]

Thanks for the Fpga correction. Is there some extra detail/documentation on those pulse array Dacs?

No worries.

Like I mentioned, you can pretty much find all of the information in the DAVE thread, but Rob posted specifically about his Pulse Array DAC in his blog thread - Link. Caution, it's lengthy and detailed.

Edit: Since he is the only one using his Pulse Array DAC this is pretty much the only resource where you can find info on it, short of asking Rob directly.