Life after Yggdrasil?

[SoundAround]

Hello @Torq: 

 
One of the records in the table reads “Bristol BDA-3”. Should it be changed to Bryston BDA-3, perhaps?
 
 

 

[SoundAround]

Perhaps, also worth considering: Lynx Hilo Reference A/D D/A Converter System? 

 

[SoundAround]

And one very minor remark, if I may, @Torq. 

One of the records in your table reads “Bristol BDA-3”. Should it be changed to “Bryston BDA-3”? 

 
 

 

[Torq]

 
This reminds me of the controversy over Schiit's Gungnir and Yggdrasil SE vs balanced outs. Your comments above would suggest that for Yggdrasil there isn't much of a drop in performance when going SE...
 
One minor request, if you would consider: Many of the components you evaluate are available from dealers with no price tag readily advertised on their website. It would be nice if you could mention the dealer's asking price for the components you review. This way readers can more easily judge on the value merits of the product in question compared to the Yggdrasil...

I can't reliably discern any difference between the balanced and SE outputs on my Yggdrasil.  It may be that there is one, but if there is it's so minor as to be something that I don't hear.
 
My daily configuration has the balanced outputs of Yggdrasil feeding my Ragnarok and the single-ended feeding my WA5-LE (which has XLR inputs, but they're just for convenience -  it's a single-ended design).  And I do that because while Yggdrasil doesn't seem affected by which output is used, Ragnarok definitely does sound obviously better used balanced!
 
Prices added as requested.
 
A few of these DACs I've auditioned via friends who own them, so for those I'll post the price as I find it listed from reputable sources.

 

[Youth]

Torq, have you listened to the Gumby? If so, what do you think about it? I realize that this thread is about finding an upgrade over Yggy but I thought it would be interesting to hear your thoughts about it's smaller sibling.

 

[Torq]

 
Perhaps, also worth considering: Lynx Hilo Reference A/D D/A Converter System? 

 
Thanks for the suggestion, but probably not.
 
For one, I'm rapidly burning out on the whole process - so absent some entirely new and innovative approach, I'm probably not adding any more DACs to the list for this iteration.
 
And then, I've no use for another A/D converter (I have them as part of my studio) and don't really care for splitting the component budget in that manner when two out of the three functions that unit performs will simply never be used.  I'd rather the parts cost was focused on one thing ... the D/A conversion (with exceptions for built-in ethernet streaming interfaces and/or Roon integration).
 

  And one very minor remark, if I may, @Torq. 

One of the records in your table reads “Bristol BDA-3”. Should it be changed to “Bryston BDA-3”? 

 
 

 
Thanks (bloody auto-correct), fixed!

 

[Torq]

  Torq, have you listened to the Gumby? If so, what do you think about it? I realize that this thread is about finding an upgrade over Yggy but I thought it would be interesting to hear your thoughts about it's smaller sibling.

I have listened to both the regular Gungnir as well as the multi-bit version.  I didn't keep detailed listening notes, since it wasn't something I was listening to with intent to buy, but from memory it was very close to Yggdrasil.  As I recall, Gungnir MB was a bit richer/warmer down low, perhaps with a smidge less articulation in the bass, and a little juicier in the mids and only gave up a tiny bit of perceived detail; it was a very beguiling and musical device.  So warmer, but less neutral as a result.
 
My comment at the time was pretty much "It's like a mini-Yggdrasil ... 90% of the performance for half the price."
 
It might well be a better fit for brighter amps/cans, since Yggdrasil is pretty much completely neutral and balanced and doesn't take prisoners, or make excuses, if there are issues elsewhere in your chain.
 
And while I'd have to listen to it in the proper context again to be sure, I'd wager I'd rank it above all but two of the DACs I've posted comments on so far (Hugo TT and DAVE).  Though if I took price into consideration I'd rank it above the Hugo TT as well.
 
Hope that helps.

 

[grizzlybeast]

Very curious of your opinion of the Pavane vs Yggdrasil will match the others I have read.
I have simply been using usb since its implementation is not bad but From my Imac I will try toslink tonight to see if I hear a big difference.

 

[Torq]

exaSound

e22 Mk2 DAC (-)(!)

My feelings about this DAC have wandered a bit over time (and weren’t very positive initially), but I think I’ve settled on a consistent impression of the thing.  And I actually wound up auditioning this DAC twice …
 
The first time I only used the S/PDIF interfaces, which is, per an earlier post, my general preference in the absence of an AES interface.  What I didn’t realize in my first audition was that exaSound provide dedicated OS X drivers for this (Core Audio and ASIO) … so I wound up re-auditioning it using those.
 
Now, I’ll kick off by saying that I did not hear any difference at all using their drivers vs. just running it on the standard S/PDIF interface.  However, the drivers did enable me to run quad-rate DSD (DSD256) from OS X without any drop-out issues – albeit required using a different player than I usually do, which wouldn’t wash on a day-to-day basis.  Sadly, all DSD seems to do for me on a reliable basis is make the file size HUGE without any reliably audible increase in “quality”.  BUT one or two DACs I’ve listened to so far made a better showing with DSD than they did with some pieces in PCM – this was one of them, though that still didn’t elevate it over Yggdrasil playing the same music via PCM.
 
Rambling over … on to the sound …
 
My initial notes have “insubstantial” as an early comment on the overall sound, but I later revised this to “light without being bright”.  Ultimately, I wound up settling on “neutral, perhaps edging towards clinical or dry”.  Despite this, it wasn’t fatiguing at all, but it wasn’t as emotive as I would have liked either.  It was quite fast and energetic at times, which was very enjoyable with the right music – though with the Abyss that could get a little much at times.
 
The e22 projects a very wide soundstage … perhaps overly so … particularly when using my Abyss or HD800S.  With speakers it was almost unnaturally wide, but obviously shallower than with Yggdrasil.  Height, also, suffered some in comparison to the Schiit DAC (not really a concern for headphone listening).  The image was very solid, however … and I got the sense I could walk between the instruments/players with both small Jazz pieces and major orchestral works.
 
Detail was excellent, without the sense of exaggeration that I found with the Auralic Vega. Tone was very good, though I preferred Yggdrasil’s rendering of piano and brass and, still, detailed cymbal work was still on the side of the Schiit product.  Transparency and instrumental separation/layering was quite competitive, particularly with vocals and vocal harmonies, but not quite at Yggdrasil’s level (to be fair, the difference was slight and not apparent on every recording).
 
I think, re-reading the above, things sound a bit more negative than they really are.  It’s not really my preferred signature or level of “musicality” (which probably really only means anything to me) but it was still technically rather proficient and I wound up quite liking the thing, which was rather against expectations.
 
If I needed DSD support, particularly in an OS X (macOS, I guess, now) environment, and this was $2,000 instead of $3,499, this would be a contender.  And since Yggdrasil won’t do DSD, if that really was a requirement I’d have to scratch my price objection.
 
I would take this over the Ayre QB-9 DSD or the Vega (and at least one other, which may turn out to be surprising, that I haven’t posted comments on yet, but will get added here once I have).
 
As it is, I don’t feel it quite measures up to Yggdrasil – even if prices were equal, and, at its normal asking price, would be well on the wrong side of the value equation for me.

 

[Torq]

Luxman

DA-06 (-)

No … no … no …
 
I found this lacking in detail retrieval compared to the Vega (which is, I find, a bit artificial in that realm), but also the exaSound, my Linn units, all of the Chord products (including the Mojo) and, of course, given my comments on the other units so far, Yggdrasil.
 
The bottom end was a bit warmer, maybe even tending towards lush (which for bass I don’t really consider to be a good thing), than the Schiit DAC.
 
With my LCD-4 the soundstage was not very apparent at all, to the point that it came across as being almost closed-in and, with very small works, a bit claustrophobic.  It was a bit better with the Abyss and HD800S, but still not as good in this area as I would expect even from much lower-end hardware.
 
Overall, it’s actually really quite musical and in a very relaxing way (I dozed off at the start of the 2^nd act of Carmen).  But it lacked engagement (or involvement, if you prefer) for me, regardless of what I played through it.  It’s very smooth in its presentation, to the point that I felt that music with real bite had the edge taken off it somewhat … which was a problem when the bite there was intentional.  Though it did handle less-well-done recordings very nicely and filed off their rough edges somewhat.
 
Vocals were lovely and buttery smooth … though again, sometimes perhaps where they shouldn’t be.
 
So that’s good and bad, at the same time, and leaves things a bit confused.
 
I was coming off the back of a bunch of, top-end-lively (and/or super-detailed) DACs when I heard this, so I thought that might be coloring my initial impressions.  But, back to back with Yggdrasil, at home, those impressions didn’t change much.
 
DSD and PCM playback both exhibited the same basic traits and I couldn’t really say one was better or worse than the other.
 
I can see this fitting very well in any system that tends towards brightness or sterility, but I don’t think it’s technically competitive with DACs costing much less.
 
Totally different presentation to Yggdrasil, but comes at more than double the price and while managing to be very musical, doesn’t really stand up in other categories.  Definitely not for me.

 

[Torq]

A note on my references to listening to "Carmen" (which is always, for these purposes, going to be the "Jessye Norman" version) ...
 
This is not something I got to do with every DAC - this only occurred if I had the DAC at home or if I was listening to a friend's unit, and then only if I had the time.  Some of the units I heard weren't something I wanted to spend another 3 hours listening to, so even if/where the opportunity had presented itself, I might have skipped it there too.

 

[Torq]

Very curious of your opinion of the Pavane vs Yggdrasil will match the others I have read.
I have simply been using usb since its implementation is not bad but From my Imac I will try toslink tonight to see if I hear a big difference.

It's coming ... probably not today, but it's coming.
 
I didn't try the Pavane with USB (or any other DAC that had a USB input unless I was testing DSD or it was the only option).  For TOSLINK I like the Lifatec cables; they're inexpensive and measure way beyond spec (way beyond anything that I'd ever imagine will be relevant to audio in fact).

 

[grizzlybeast]

 

Very curious of your opinion of the Pavane vs Yggdrasil will match the others I have read.
I have simply been using usb since its implementation is not bad but From my Imac I will try toslink tonight to see if I hear a big difference.

It's coming ... probably not today, but it's coming.
 
I didn't try the Pavane with USB (or any other DAC that had a USB input unless I was testing DSD or it was the only option).  For TOSLINK I like the Lifatec cables; they're inexpensive and measure way beyond spec (way beyond anything that I'd ever imagine will be relevant to audio in fact).

Ill have to pick up one of those cables. 
 
BUT if you prefer AES on the yggy you may like to use ethernet via the Rednet 3. However using extra software etc is a turn off to me. 

 

[artur9]

I heard the Bricasti M1SE at C.A.F.  today and was very impressed.  Hope you'll get to that one soon.
 
Nothing else DAC-wise caught my attention but lordy! lordy! did the less expensive Joseph Audio speakers floor me. 

 

[Torq]

Ill have to pick up one of those cables. 

BUT if you prefer AES on the yggy you may like to use ethernet via the Rednet 3. However using extra software etc is a turn off to me. 

I have one sitting in its box at home, just haven't had a chance to set it up yet.

I'm looking forward to trying it though and seeing how it compares to my other ethernet interfaces/streamers, all of which improved what I was getting out of Yggdrasil. The Auralic Aries fed over either ethernet or WiFi and driving Yggdrasil via AES is a definite improvement over the direct connections. Likewise using my Linn streamers, again via ethernet, and then via BNC COAX w/ S/PDIF into the DAC. Saving all-up comparisons until I can do them back to back and all together though.