[nudd]

Zerodeefex do you see any benefit of pairing the Pulse xfi with a Cavalli Liquid Carbon when it comes to headphone use, or would the bemefits be pretty minimal?

Thank you for the kind words . I definitely want people to weigh what I say with the knowledge that I am friends with some of these guys. 

To clarify (re-reading my post, I get that it was confusing) I didn't meant "called out" in the "oh no you din't" sense, I just meant it should be mentioned in the review (if he was part author) that he's had negative dealings with LH in the past.

 

[tomscy2000]

This is cute. I really don't have much time for this, so I'm just going to do this once. I am the main author of the article in question. The article wasn't credited to me, mostly because other people (like speakerphone, the measurements guy, and SGS, who provided the unit as well as subjective commentary) contributed greatly to making the piece possible, and because the website is completely self-funded (zero sponsors or ad revenue), we haven't been able to migrate from a platform apart from WP.com, which doesn't allow for multiple bylines. I've since made additions to the article to address some of the purported "shenanigans" that we're accused of doing.
 
There are a number of things to state here:

1. I am not "out to get" LH Labs, nor are any of the other guys. I am a backer of the Geek Wave, and while at times the project has upset me, I've mostly just rinsed myself of it and kept out of the fray --- I'm just waiting it out. Personally, I find Larry's digital design skills to be very, very, very good. It does not mean LH Labs as a whole knows at all what it's doing when it comes to earphones, though.
2. I have zero experience with the Verb, and it's perhaps better to keep it that way. I wasn't subscribed to this thread prior to today, and I was only here to provide the data interpretation, and to correlate (or rebuff) the subjective experience that SGS described with the data. For the record, I have seen and heard as many IEMs as any, as well as headphones. I've also examined and interpreted many measurements, especially with regard to IEMs. This is not my first rodeo.
3. Lachlan had nothing to do with the article. He is an occasional contributor to the website, but he didn't know about this project until today.
4. speakerphone is only involved with measurement aspects. The Verb, originally, wasn't even part of what he was supposed to measure (it was actually supposed to be a comparison of the ER4S against the low-cost MK5). We just threw it in, because we were curious about how it measured. It wasn't until the results came out that we realized how terrible the Verb was.
5. speakerphone follows IEC protocols as closely as possible, unless they're not suitable for IEMs, such as 120 ohm output impedance. There are questions about why pink noise vs. sine signals are used in his protocols, but I didn't stipulate what he needs to measure.
6. Measurements for Headphones and IEMs should not be directly comparable, unless they're made by very small microphones located next to the tympanum.
7. Regarding the distortion measurements: given the measurement type (THD, what ARTA measures), and the applied parameters (94 dB @ 500 Hz, where the Helmholtz resonance of the ear simulator doesn't affect results), the Verb indeed does perform well. It does not mean the Verb is "good" though.
8. Perhaps a dedicated DSP module could be applied to the Verb, and the Verb would have enough headroom to not distort at all, even under heavy equalization, but purists would protest, wouldn't they?
9. I do not believe remarking about the CSD is misleading. For me, CSD, just like FR, is about relative levels between key perceptual landmarks of frequency. In the case of CSD, it is the relative levels evolving over time. In my opinion, scrutinizing absolute time course is misleading, because it disregards testing parameters (signal source, acquisition samples). These criticisms also invoke external data that are not directly comparable.
10. So, disregarding absolute time course, after the immediate impulse, the midrange between 800-5000 Hz is essentially nonexistent. Thus, relative to the midrange (where human hearing is most sensitive, between 1-4 kHz) the Verb rings pretty intensely. Bass and parts of some treble will essentially be all that people hear. If people examine CSD charts made with the same protocols (like this one of the ER4S made also by speakerphone), they'll understand why the Verb is criticized.
11. People need to stop referring to the Verb as a $40 product. It is not. Backers invested $39 in LH Labs as a company in the faith that they would develop a good IEM in the Verb. In return, they received the Verb as a perk. The official retail price of the Verb is $129, I believe. It is being sold on Amazon at $89. So for the last time, the Verb does not cost $40.
12. If sympathizers to LH Labs are interpreting the article as an outright attack on LH Labs' integrity, please read the prose carefully. We have concluded, based on the data we got, that the Verb is not a good product. The vast majority of people who have heard the Verb believe the Verb is a terrible sounding product. We are simply taking measured data to support what has been said about the Verb. We have strongly suggested that LH Labs should launch an official investigation into the Verb. The rest is about illustrating the probable cause for a poor product, and all of these theories are guesses. So there are a few possibilities at play here: (1) LH Labs screwed up in their oversight of the Verb project, and screwed up majorly, or (2) LH Labs saw a few specifications (good bandwidth, low distortion, etc.) listened for a few seconds, and concluded they could sell this product at an inflated price, or (3) the OEM that LH Labs worked with gave them amazing sounding test samples, but churned out a facsimile of the Xuma for the production product instead, duping LH Labs, jeopardizing their reputation as an OEM, and risking a lawsuit. People can make their own conclusions as to the most probable reason for why the Verb sounds really bad.
13. My personal suggestion would be that LH Labs issue an immediate recall of all Verb products, and to release a new version free to all backers of the Verb. It would be the responsible thing to do.

 

[a_recording]

Just to confirm (for what it's worth), I did not have any input on the article. In fact I only learnt about it when Tom linked me to it after it had gone live. I don't have any opinions on the Verb beyond what I've read here and elsewhere; I haven't heard it myself. 

 

[Lonelyers]

 

1. People need to stop referring to the Verb as a $40 product. It is not. Backers invested $39 in LH Labs as a company in the faith that they would develop a good IEM in the Verb. In return, they received the Verb as a perk. The official retail price of the Verb is $129, I believe. It is being sold on Amazon at $89. So for the last time, the Verb does not cost $40.
2. If sympathizers to LH Labs are interpreting the article as an outright attack on LH Labs' integrity, please read the prose carefully. We have concluded, based on the data we got, that the Verb is not a good product. The vast majority of people who have heard the Verb believe the Verb is a terrible sounding product. We are simply taking measured data to support what has been said about the Verb. We have strongly suggested that LH Labs should launch an official investigation into the Verb. The rest is about illustrating the probable cause for a poor product, and all of these theories are guesses. So there are a few possibilities at play here: (1) LH Labs screwed up in their oversight of the Verb project, and screwed up majorly, or (2) LH Labs saw a few specifications (good bandwidth, low distortion, etc.) listened for a few seconds, and concluded they could sell this product at an inflated price, or (3) the OEM that LH Labs worked with gave them amazing sounding test samples, but churned out a facsimile of the Xuma for the production product instead, duping LH Labs, jeopardizing their reputation as an OEM, and risking a lawsuit. People can make their own conclusions as to the most probable reason for why the Verb sounds really bad.
3. My personal suggestion would be that LH Labs issue an immediate recall of all Verb products, and to release a new version free to all backers of the Verb. It would be the responsible thing to do.

 
Thank you for the elaboration and detailed analysis - I would say the article is a very objective one, stating out the obvious in a professional manner.  LH Labs may argue that the criticism of Verb was deal to personal listening preference, but your article has provided concrete evidence that the Verb's fiasco is not only due to "personal taste".
 
I really like the last three points you raised here, and I am still looking forward to seeing how LH Labs would deal with the entire matter.  Right now, we have heard nothing - no refund, no replacements, dead silence.  I sincerely hope that LH Labs would be more responsible, and offer the Verb backers a reasonable solution.  (I would rather have, and should have, spent the money on the Trinity IEMs now on Kickstarter.)  Despite the success of Geek Out, I guess I would not jump into another LH Labs crowd-funding/crowd-designing campaign without thinking very, very carefully, because of the Verb.
 
Worse still, I am still waiting for the Geek IEM-X (or Verb X? That's the balanced version) to arrive.  I don't see LH Labs allowing us to do a refund.  If LH Labs do not make any major revisions to the IEM-X (probably not happening), I am planning to mail it back to LH Labs once I receive it, unopened, in hopes of getting a little money back (see LH Labs return / refund policy on their website).  If LH Labs would not refund me even if I do that, I would draw the conclusion that the whole "Verb" thing is nothing more than a scam.

 

[Ostrichcized]

The bigger issue isn't a specific review showing one thing or another, but that LH has tarnished the trust that is so critical to their business model. They have generated millions of dollars in sales to be completed/filled at a future date based on purchasers interpenetration of information given by the marketing department and its correlation with positive user feedback from each product increment. The strategy of taking some risk off of a customer (that has no idea what the quality of end product will be) by adding inherent value in the form of substantially discounted pricing has been a huge key to their success.  With that being said, they were never selling a $39 IEM, but rather a ~$130 IEM that they decided to charge $39 to purchase. At this point, the price, specs, and terminology are irreverent. People have received a LH product and derived their own conclusions. If the poll at the top of this thread is accurate when extrapolated to the whole, 90% of Verb buyers feel that they did not receive the value that they expected. Regardless of the reason, this is not a good direction for a company that needs future customers to trust that they know what they are doing. LH, many of your customers are buying in to your ecosystem. For the sake of their future value and support, I hope your customer service department is given the means to rectify these types of issues quickly and appropriately before the relatively insignificant, easily addressable issues agitate your customer base enough to graze in greener grass elsewhere.

 

[doctorjazz]

Here's hoping the feedback on the Verbs will have LH keep a closer eye on the balanced ones, which I'm waiting for as well.

 

[kapanak]

Here's hoping the feedback on the Verbs will have LH keep a closer eye on the balanced ones, which I'm waiting for as well.

I hope you realize the Verb-X balanced ones are literally the same IEMs with a balanced 2.5in plug, yes? As in, balanced cabling ... not balanced sound

 

[chartwell85]

 
I hope you realize the Verb-X balanced ones are literally the same IEMs with a balanced 2.5in plug, yes? As in, balanced cabling ... not balanced sound

You're incorrect.  They are not the same IEM's at all. 

 

[kapanak]

 
You're incorrect.  They are not the same IEM's at all. 

Here are your own words:
 

 
They even look exactly the same. Wiring and connector are the difference according to your own words.

 

[chartwell85]

 
Sorry to call BS, but here's your own words:
 

 
They even look exactly the same. Wiring and connector are the difference according to your own words.

And we've chosen to move away from that model.  That's all I'm going to say on this topic for now.  

 

[kapanak]

 
And we've chosen to move away from that model.  That's all I'm going to say on this topic for now.  

Then I wasn't incorrect. There was just some unknown to anybody outside of LH Labs information that you've just chosen to share. Thank you.

 

[MuZo2]

I am copying below text from marketing advert posted on some site which was posted on 13th Feb
 
In case you missed it, LH Labs also announced a pair of new IEM headphone offerings — the Verb ($39) and the Verb X ($69). Casey tells me that the Verb has a v-shaped response (highs + bass), aka, “a commercial tuning”. This headphone has arrived State-side and is shipping in the next 2 weeks. The Verb X, the fully-balanced IEM with the “audiophile tuning”, is coming in about 4 weeks.

 

[wingsounds13]

And finally some news on the Verb-X. Let's hope this means that there will be a SUBSTANTIAL improvement in sound quality. Personally, I think it wobe a good plan to work with HiFiMan on an LH Labs branded version of the RE-600. Maybe just paint them red with the ∆ Verb-X logo. I would be quite happy with that or even the same thing based on the RE-400.

J.P.

 

[pfloyd]

And we've chosen to move away from that model.  That's all I'm going to say on this topic for now.  

Verrry interesting.

 

[mscott58]

Verrry interesting.

Agreed!