[UNOE]

On the MQA topic, the speculation and statements in this thread are all over the map. Reading how MQA works will make this clear to anyone interested. There is an excellent Stereophile article where John Atkinson explains everything in practical terms.

Net Net... When a stream containing MQA encoded info is played on Android Tidal app...or even UAPP, it doesn't see it any different from a normal FLAC file. It is 24bit, it is often 48Khz. It contains lots of what would be called "noise" below what is likely the noise floor of what we can hear. That noise is arguably not going distract/detract from the fidelity of the normal PCM decode. It is inaudible (a point of moderate debate). There is a lot of info here. All this data is actually compressed MQA information. You need a MQA licensed player to decode it (HW or SW). The TIdal player, Android OS, and UAPP are not licensed players (yet). You are not getting anything more than a remastered slightly better than CD quality (except for the noise), lossless PCM file. You need an external MQA DAC, an internal licensed SW Decode (not yet available for android, or V30 (not verified it is supported just yet) to decode this data and listen to MQA at all. Decoding it uncompresses it, unfolding the layered detail into the original stream, expanding the sampling rate to 96Khz and higher depending on the source and decoder. The difference is night/day. You can hear it using the PC or MAC desktop TIDAL apps today which are the only SW based MQA decoders I am aware of. This data should work as others have said, through the USB MQA capable DAC as well (HW Decode)

Yeah I’m in agreement. My comments last night I was pointing out I know it’s software decoding of MQA.

 

[jt25741]

Yeah I’m in agreement. My comments last night I was pointing out I know it’s software decoding of MQA.

There is no software decoding of MQA going on. This is the core of my explanation, or attempt at one.

 

[ljnew]

But normally android will process 96kHz (even 44.1kHz) into 48kHz sampling rate.

Even it is said to be Android: 96kHz but 96kHz is achieved only when you connect with usb dac.

Don't think this is true for 2 reasons:

1. I set uapp to native sampling rates and it's reporting 96khz
2. v20 specs ES9218 is a 32-bit 394kHz and DSD512 capable component

see:

 

[DJ The Rocket]

Not sure how everything works.

My ultimate test is my ears.

I've had snake oil before and Viper definitely isn't snake oil. If you can root your phone, I'd recommend you try it to see if you like it or not.

I will say you'd be the first person I've ever heard say they don't like it.

*sigh* this is exactly what I'm complaining about. I can't tell (and neither can YOU, for that matter) whether what you're doing really is better, or whether you just did a poor job volume matching or what...

 

[artpiggo]

Don't think this is true for 2 reasons:

1. I set uapp to native sampling rates and it's reporting 96khz
2. v20 specs ES9218 is a 32-bit 394kHz and DSD512 capable component

see:

Trust me. I email to ask developer already. And it is inconvenient truth. See last paragraph.

 

[ryangco11]

List of music players with their output sample rate.

https://forum.xda-developers.com/v20/themes/list-music-players-dac-t3536815

UAAP will downsample but stock music player can play 3xxkHz 32bit or whatever lg advertised.

Also if you use any equalizer app or viper4android, they will downsample the output.

 

[ljnew]

*sigh* this is exactly what I'm complaining about. I can't tell (and neither can YOU, for that matter) whether what you're doing really is better, or whether you just did a poor job volume matching or what...

Here we go......

That's a debate as old as time.

Yes I absolutely can tell whether something is better to my ears or not.

Trust me, there's no way you can know with 100% certainty what everyone can hear and how it sounds to them.

I'd like to see a statistical test or research project that has a 100% probability with 0 error.

Scour headfi for reviews on viper4android and install it and then come back and tell me whether there's a difference or not.

 

[JaeYoon]

*sigh* this is exactly what I'm complaining about. I can't tell (and neither can YOU, for that matter) whether what you're doing really is better, or whether you just did a poor job volume matching or what...

unfortunately there is no point.

For example if a salesman sells a "Audiophile USB" cable and says this will increase soundstage, and make mids better and improve clarity and resolution. Most consumers will buy it and hear what they believe. It must be true right? so their expectation when they listen is just that.
There is no telling anything. No measurements done, no controlled listening environments. just what they hear and think.

Volume Matching is not simple. It takes someone with a neutral mind, who is willing to actually volume match and close his eyes and mind away from which product is which.

 

[ljnew]

List of music players with their output sample rate.

https://forum.xda-developers.com/v20/themes/list-music-players-dac-t3536815

UAAP will downsample but stock music player can play 3xxkHz 32bit or whatever lg advertised.

Nice, but he doesn't tell us his settings for Poweramp

 

[ljnew]

It takes someone with a neutral mind, who is willing to actually volume match and close his eyes and mind away from which product is which.

So easily done with Viper4android. I guarantee you can blind test and will notice a difference.

 

[JaeYoon]

So easily done with Viper4android. I guarantee you can blind test and will notice a difference.

Darn well I should've read more into the conversation.
I read up a bit on viper4android. Well I no longer doubt that it can change the sound.

It's using digital signal processing and other things like it's own EQ, it has some neat options you can use to tune the sound.

 

[ljnew]

Darn well I should've read more into the conversation.
I read up a bit on viper4android. Well I no longer doubt that it can change the sound.

It's using digital signal processing and other things like it's own EQ, it has some neat options you can use to tune the sound.

It looks like that's what they're doing to v30, adding a baby version of viper4android to custom tune the sound.

 

[Paulus XII]

So easily done with Viper4android. I guarantee you can blind test and will notice a difference.

Me too, obviously.

Even FiiO incorporated Viper4Android FX on the FiiO X5-III.

 

[jt25741]

Nice, but he doesn't tell us his settings for Poweramp

There were lots of posts on V20 and how Direct mode (not resampled) with various sample rates can be sent to built in DAC. Look for comments on Mediaplayer API specifically. It was purportedly true that all I/O done on the V20 using Mediaplayer would results in unaltered bitstreams to the DAC. Like many have noticed, much of what gets posted is intended to be accurate but unfortunately is not. Some hard fast rules dont seem to hold up. In my testing I have seen Mediaplayer based Music players like PlayerPro(without DSP Codec) fail and succumb to the 48K Platform SRC step (and sounding bad while doing so). Also I have seen more success with UAPP which doesn't use Mediaplayer at all. I have posted the somewhat indeterminate nature of my findings. To this date UAPP is the best way to get the best sound most of the time IMHO, and it doesn't use Mediaplayer at all.

Good Listening

 

[ljnew]

There were lots of posts on V20 and how Direct mode (not resampled) with various sample rates can be sent to built in DAC. Look for comments on Mediaplayer API specifically. It was purportedly true that all I/O done on the V20 using Mediaplayer would results in unaltered bitstreams to the DAC. Like many have noticed, much of what gets posted is intended to be accurate but unfortunately is not. Some hard fast rules dont seem to hold up. In my testing I have seen Mediaplayer based Music players like PlayerPro(without DSP Codec) fail and succumb to the 48K Platform SRC step (and sounding bad while doing so). Also I have seen more success with UAPP which doesn't use Mediaplayer at all. I have posted the somewhat indeterminate nature of my findings. To this date UAPP is the best way to get the best sound most of the time IMHO, and it doesn't use Mediaplayer at all.

Good Listening

yes i use uapp and the built in player. By the way, notice the music app won't allow you to use the lg app eq when playing hifi 24 bit 96khz. notice error message at bottom of attached photo. I wonder why?