[vagarach]

I double majored in actuarial science and statistics for my bachelors degree. Lots of highly complex mathematics and statistics for 4 years.

My parents and other people of their generation are much more agile when it comes to doing difficult mental arithmetic, and yeah, I'm dependent on my calculator. The mental agility I have learned is of a completely different nature, I simply don't need to be able to find 2345 + 8756 in 5 seconds flat.

This times table thing is from 20 years ago and bemoaning the general state of education is timeless.

 

[chesebert]

simple arithmetic is not mathematics

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armaegis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I actually run a math program for kids on the weekends (about 140 kids, staff of 22). The first thing I did when I became principal several years ago: I banned calculators.

Unless your kids are <10, I really don't see the point.

 

[wuwhere]

I would not have come to that conclusion. Not enough data to support it.

 

[DayoftheGreek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif simple arithmetic is not mathematics

Yes indeed.

 

[ForgottenxxRebel]

haha, that's sad. I was at the Dairy Queen with my family this summer. We had to wait a long time because the girl at the register, who was older than me, needed a calculator to subtract to mke change. I knew the amount without using a calculator.

really sad thing is this is a dairy queen, it was less than $20.

 

[choka]

I can't do mental arithmetic at all. My brain is simply not wired that way. Why do I want to know what is 12345679 multiplied by 8 when I can pull out a calculator and get the answer 98765432? But I can do much higher level conceptual math stuff. It really depends on the person. To me, an understanding of HOW to do something is much more important, because with the understanding of how, I can do it.
(disclaimer: I can do 12x6, no problem. I probably can do 123x6 mentally, but unless I don't have a calculator around I will refuse to do it.)

 

[notmuchcash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForgottenxxRebel /img/forum/go_quote.gif haha, that's sad. I was at the Dairy Queen with my family this summer. We had to wait a long time because the girl at the register, who was older than me, needed a calculator to subtract to mke change. I knew the amount without using a calculator. really sad thing is this is a dairy queen, it was less than $20.

Wow, it's sad her training didn't include how to count back change. Not hard. Start at the total and count to the amount tendered. Takes about as long as counting the change when you get the amount from a cash register.

The one nice thing about the change being handled by a cash register is that the amount you handed them is on the receipt. Makes it easy to show them they counted wrong.

 

[koven]

Lol okay, so one Pharmacist who is not good at math, somehow equals the entire general public?

 

[choka]

Quote:

Originally Posted by notmuchcash /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, it's sad her training didn't include how to count back change. Not hard.

That's true. Counting change should be the basic training of someone working at the register. There is a very easy way to make sure the change is correct.

 

[ForgottenxxRebel]

going back to my change story, i'm surprised Dairy Queen isn't like mcdonalds yet. i was at a mcdonalds and their cash register actually dispenses change, like a change machine. they don't even have to count it anymore.

thanks for dumbing it down, mcdonalds!! lol

 

[ford2]

Looks like the most intelligent animal on Planet Earth is in a steady decline(has been since the baby boomer generation).

If you think there is not much hope now imagine what it will be like in the year 3000 (standing room only)

 

[ForgottenxxRebel]

Idiocracy anyone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looks like the most intelligent animal on Planet Earth is in a steady decline(has been since the baby boomer generation). If you think there is not much hope now imagine what it will be like in the year 3000 (standing room only)

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilking /img/forum/go_quote.gif Level of maths skill in the general public is depressing

Hear, hear!

This was discussed in-depth recently here in the school education thread. My take on this is the teaching of the times table; it's absolutely useless and does not teach math but memory. Calculators in class rooms is to dictionaries in spelling tests.

If you can do 3 x 9 you can also do 3,000,000 x 9,000,000 and $900 - 70% ~ The majority of people just fail to think.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vagarach /img/forum/go_quote.gif I double majored in actuarial science and statistics for my bachelors degree. Lots of highly complex mathematics and statistics for 4 years. My parents and other people of their generation are much more agile when it comes to doing difficult mental arithmetic, and yeah, I'm dependent on my calculator. The mental agility I have learned is of a completely different nature, I simply don't need to be able to find 2345 + 8756 in 5 seconds flat. This times table thing is from 20 years ago and bemoaning the general state of education is timeless.

11,101 in 2 seconds flat. Ok, maybe 3 seconds.

I see it as 2 + 8 = 10 plus 3 digits to the right, or 10,000, then 3 + 7 = 1000 more since it's 10 in the hundreds digit, so 11,000, then 45 +56 = 101. I can't explain why, but when I see numbers like that, I work from left to right (counter to what I was trained to do in grade school). But more than that, I look for and instantly see the easy math groupings, like things that add to 10.

The weird thing is that it's just the opposite if I were adding a column of numbers on a sheet of paper. In that case, I would go right back to my grade school training and approach it rather methodically going from right to left (as you're supposed to), "carrying" the extra digits over to the next column. Or, if subtracting, "borrowing" from the next column.

So I think that what we're seeing today is only partly do to the advent of the calculator and the resultant changes that have evolved over time in terms of instructional methods. Yes, to a great degree, younger people who weren't taught how to add a column of numbers, or to subtract using the "borrowing" method, or to memorize the times tables, will obviously rely more on calculators.

But I think it's more than that. I don't think as many people today (even older people who've grown to rely on calculators) even "think" in mathematical ways or "see" simple mathematical relationships like they did when they were younger, because those old habits have long since fallen out of practice. I have an excuse: I'm an accountant! So I can't really help myself.