[Tom Yum Goong]

If you start doing lawyer talk like that (everything has energy) and twisting definitions to suit your argument, there's not much point in discussing any two - sided issue.

He would make a great lawyer or politician.

 

[swspiers]

  Well, I wouldn't call myself an addict if I had been clean for over two decades
 
 

I learned the hard way, brother.  I'm always an addict, albeit a recovering one.  But I view the whole thing from a Dark Zen aspect anyway.
 
And I can tell you one thing with certainty: were it not for what I get out of the music, I'm not here, man.  No way.  Swear to God, Kyuss saved my f-ing life!

 

[swspiers]

 
 
This record just came today, now the bass rumbles hard on this album damn. Really liking the production as well as the performance.

+1000
 
Amazing album!

 

[markm1]

 
 
This record just came today, now the bass rumbles hard on this album damn. Really liking the production as well as the performance.

I just ordered my copy from Amazon. Can't wait.
 
Re: some of these other discussions-silly. No one needs to tell anyone what is real metal what isn't, how to listen to it, angry, straight, stoned schiit faced or otherwise. Please! If we listened to metal in a heightened state of agitation all the time, you'd burn out pretty fast.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I just ordered my copy from Amazon. Can't wait.

Re: some of these other discussions-silly. No one needs to tell anyone what is real metal what isn't, how to listen to it, angry, straight, stoned schiit faced or otherwise. Please! If we listened to metal in a heightened state of agitation all the time, you'd burn out pretty fast.

Not to sound contrary, but I think that's the magic of metal. Someone could be listening to 185 BPM blast-beats at 11:00PM at night and find it relaxing. Though the same song played live causes a kid to jump from the rafters while screaming, only to have his friends catch him, or not.


It's a beautiful thing...............or not?

 

[wrathzombie]

  I didn't realize that so many people listened to metal in order to relax or something to that effect. I listen to metal for the ENERGY!

I used to study with metal blaring through my headphones. Even now, I read or work with metal. I walk or cycles with metal as well. It definitely calms me, I am sure; just like cleaning my house does. Maybe, it just works for people differently.
And of course in concerts I get aggressive but that is different.
 
And, I don't believe the whole idea of type of music being related to each and every band members ideology. Its art, it cannot be defined or genralised.

 

[phrozenspite]

  I used to study with metal blaring through my headphones. Even now, I read or work with metal. I walk or cycles with metal as well. It definitely calms me, I am sure; just like cleaning my house does. Maybe, it just works for people differently.
And of course in concerts I get aggressive but that is different.
 
And, I don't believe the whole idea of type of music being related to each and every band members ideology. Its art, it cannot be defined or genralised.

Yeah I feel the same.  I understand kind of what he means about the energy that all metal gives off, but even with black metal a lot of the anger and hatred portrayed in the music is just genre convention these days. About the only band I can think of who I get the sense that it's more for them would be Deiphago.  I don't think Alchemist feels this way, but it kind of sells the genre and musicians short defining it only aggressive or angry music. 

 

[flipper2gv]

   
Maybe for some metal, but the really extreme stuff requires anger. Otherwise, it's just fake.

 
Well, of course, it's all fake. Kreator hasn't been angry for 33 years, especially not night after night. It's always been fake. That's what I love about metal, it's cathartic but it is also a caricature, it's exaggerated. Otherwise the music would be terrible. I mean, if I had to write music when I'm really really mad, I'd end up with 30 seconds ****ty grindcore songs.
 
You don't end up with stuff like that when you are feeling strong anger:
 

 
Have you talked to some of these guys that record and play live? They are some of the most relaxed and unflinching people I've met. I've talked to the bass player in that video once after a show, and I asked him how was the process to record such an album (one of my favorite tech death album), and he just told me: "We just try to write good metal, and we throw away everything that we don't consider as good." There didn't seem to be a difference with other genres. Taylor Swift don't go through all these breakups to write her songs
 
Also, I saw you talked about Black metal more than anything. Although I never talked to many "famous" black metal musician, the only one I know personally is Mortenak from Wurm, and he was a pretty chill guy that listened to Red Hot Chili Peppers on the side.

 

[phrozenspite]

   
Well, of course, it's all fake. Kreator hasn't been angry for 33 years, especially not night after night. It's always been fake. That's what I love about metal, it's cathartic but it is also a caricature, it's exaggerated. Otherwise the music would be terrible. I mean, if I had to write music when I'm really really mad, I'd end up with 30 seconds ****ty grindcore songs.
 
You don't end up with stuff like that when you are feeling strong anger:
 

 
Have you talked to some of these guys that record and play live? They are some of the most relaxed and unflinching people I've met. I've talked to the bass player in that video once after a show, and I asked him how was the process to record such an album (one of my favorite tech death album), and he just told me: "We just try to write good metal, and we throw away everything that we don't consider as good." There didn't seem to be a difference with other genres. Taylor Swift don't go through all these breakups to write her songs
 
Also, I saw you talked about Black metal more than anything. Although I never talked to many "famous" black metal musician, the only one I know personally is Mortenak from Wurm, and he was a pretty chill guy that listened to Red Hot Chili Peppers on the side.

Definitely.  when I saw Dark Funeral play with Enslaved years ago it was the last show on the tour, Enslaved came out naked and riding bouncy balls with corpsepaint on during Dark Funeral's set(they just laughed it off).  I've met various members of Mayhem.  Attila Csihar, Hellhammer, Morfeus(live member from Limbonic Art)... they told me one of their earliest memories of touring America was waking up on the tour bus and seeing a homeless guy taking a piss outside of their window.  Watain are friendly offstage, onstage yeah they have the theatrical stuff going on with the philosophical occult stuff(and they kick crowd surfers in the face), but it's just genre convention.  

 

[Music Alchemist]

If you start doing lawyer talk like that (everything has energy) and twisting definitions to suit your argument, there's not much point in discussing any two - sided issue.

 
Just because I say that I listen to metal for the energy, that does not mean I only listen to more "energetic" metal like Fear Factory. I love all metal. All metal has a certain energy to it. It's easy to understand. I'm not twisting anything.
 

  He would make a great lawyer or politician.

 
I already told you guys I was going to control the universe with black metal!

 

 
(Yes, I made this image myself.)
 

  Re: some of these other discussions-silly. No one needs to tell anyone what is real metal what isn't, how to listen to it, angry, straight, stoned schiit faced or otherwise. Please! If we listened to metal in a heightened state of agitation all the time, you'd burn out pretty fast.

 
I never said you had to be angry to listen to metal. Nor did I say anything about what is real metal or what is not. All I meant was that for the more aggressive, extreme metal, it's better to be in that same state of mind when listening to it. Sure, you can also relax with any music if you want, but listening sessions are much more intense for me if I "become the music".
 

  Yeah I feel the same.  I understand kind of what he means about the energy that all metal gives off, but even with black metal a lot of the anger and hatred portrayed in the music is just genre convention these days. About the only band I can think of who I get the sense that it's more for them would be Deiphago.  I don't think Alchemist feels this way, but it kind of sells the genre and musicians short defining it only aggressive or angry music. 

 
I should listen to that band.
 
What black metal doesn't have at least some aggression in it?

 
I mean, I guess in the end, it is hard to tell sometimes whether the aggression is genuine or the band is just going through the motions and not really feeling what they are playing. But some bands are so aggressive it's hard to believe they aren't actually feeling it!
 

  Well, of course, it's all fake. Kreator hasn't been angry for 33 years, especially not night after night. It's always been fake. That's what I love about metal, it's cathartic but it is also a caricature, it's exaggerated. Otherwise the music would be terrible. I mean, if I had to write music when I'm really really mad, I'd end up with 30 seconds ****ty grindcore songs.
 
You don't end up with stuff like that when you are feeling strong anger:
 
Have you talked to some of these guys that record and play live? They are some of the most relaxed and unflinching people I've met. I've talked to the bass player in that video once after a show, and I asked him how was the process to record such an album (one of my favorite tech death album), and he just told me: "We just try to write good metal, and we throw away everything that we don't consider as good." There didn't seem to be a difference with other genres. Taylor Swift don't go through all these breakups to write her songs
 
Also, I saw you talked about Black metal more than anything. Although I never talked to many "famous" black metal musician, the only one I know personally is Mortenak from Wurm, and he was a pretty chill guy that listened to Red Hot Chili Peppers on the side.

 
While the argument that all metal is fake can be made, I consider some bands to be more genuine than others. Just compare the most mainstream metal to some of the better black metal, for example. Those popular bands sound goofy in comparison, almost like pop music. (Not that I don't like many of the popular bands too.)
 
Yes, I am emphasizing black metal in this discussion because it has the most anger, aggression, darkness, hate, and so on, in my opinion. Death metal doesn't require as much of that, again in my opinion, because the songwriting tends to (sometimes) be formulaic. There's even a phrase that comes from that: cookie cutter death metal.
 
Again, I'm not saying black metal cannot also be formulaic and monotonous, but it just has a seriousness and darkness to it, you know? (I'm assuming you are very familiar with lots of black metal bands.) I'm also not saying that there isn't plenty of genuine and even genius death metal out there.
 
The point I am trying to make is that metal is inherently aggressive, and the best extreme metal is genuinely aggressive.

 

[flipper2gv]

   
Just because I say that I listen to metal for the energy, that does not mean I only listen to more "energetic" metal like Fear Factory. I love all metal. All metal has a certain energy to it. It's easy to understand. I'm not twisting anything.
 
 
I already told you guys I was going to control the universe with black metal!

 

 
(Yes, I made this image myself.)
 
 
I never said you had to be angry to listen to metal. Nor did I say anything about what is real metal or what is not. All I meant was that for the more aggressive, extreme metal, it's better to be in that same state of mind when listening to it. Sure, you can also relax with any music if you want, but listening sessions are much more intense for me if I "become the music".
 
 
I should listen to that band.
 
What black metal doesn't have at least some aggression in it?

 
I mean, I guess in the end, it is hard to tell sometimes whether the aggression is genuine or the band is just going through the motions and not really feeling what they are playing. But some bands are so aggressive it's hard to believe they aren't actually feeling it!
 
 
While the argument that all metal is fake can be made, I consider some bands to be more genuine than others. Just compare the most mainstream metal to some of the better black metal, for example. Those popular bands sound goofy in comparison, almost like pop music. (Not that I don't like many of the popular bands too.)
 
Yes, I am emphasizing black metal in this discussion because it has the most anger, aggression, darkness, hate, and so on, in my opinion. Death metal doesn't require as much of that, again in my opinion, because the songwriting tends to (sometimes) be formulaic. There's even a phrase that comes from that: cookie cutter death metal.
 
Again, I'm not saying black metal cannot also be formulaic and monotonous, but it just has a seriousness and darkness to it, you know? (I'm assuming you are very familiar with lots of black metal bands.) I'm also not saying that there isn't plenty of genuine and even genius death metal out there.
 
The point I am trying to make is that metal is inherently aggressive, and the best extreme metal is genuinely aggressive.

 
I guess I can give it to you that early Gorgoroth was pretty damn good and the guy was weird and hateful. But there are counter examples.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I guess I can give it to you that early Gorgoroth was pretty damn good and the guy was weird and hateful. But there are counter examples.

 
Oh, of course. Some black metal is downright silly.
 
I actually used to listen to early Gorgoroth on a daily basis.

 

[phrozenspite]

Just because I say that I listen to metal for the energy, that does not mean I only listen to more "energetic" metal like Fear Factory. I love all metal. All metal has a certain energy to it. It's easy to understand. I'm not twisting anything.


I already told you guys I was going to control the universe with black metal! :evil:




(Yes, I made this image myself.)


I never said you had to be angry to listen to metal. Nor did I say anything about what is real metal or what is not. All I meant was that for the more aggressive, extreme metal, it's better to be in that same state of mind when listening to it. Sure, you can also relax with any music if you want, but listening sessions are much more intense for me if I "become the music".


I should listen to that band.

What black metal doesn't have at least some aggression in it? :confused_face_2:

I mean, I guess in the end, it is hard to tell sometimes whether the aggression is genuine or the band is just going through the motions and not really feeling what they are playing. But some bands are so aggressive it's hard to believe they aren't actually feeling it!


While the argument that all metal is fake can be made, I consider some bands to be more genuine than others. Just compare the most mainstream metal to some of the better black metal, for example. Those popular bands sound goofy in comparison, almost like pop music. (Not that I don't like many of the popular bands too.)

Yes, I am emphasizing black metal in this discussion because it has the most anger, aggression, darkness, hate, and so on, in my opinion. Death metal doesn't require as much of that, again in my opinion, because the songwriting tends to (sometimes) be formulaic. There's even a phrase that comes from that: cookie cutter death metal.

Again, I'm not saying black metal cannot also be formulaic and monotonous, but it just has a seriousness and darkness to it, you know? (I'm assuming you are very familiar with lots of black metal bands.) I'm also not saying that there isn't plenty of genuine and even genius death metal out there.

The point I am trying to make is that metal is inherently aggressive, and the best extreme metal is genuinely aggressive.

I'd point out venom for example, their music hasnt aged well but they were hugely influencial despite not being serious about the themes of their music. I like a lot of what i saw you listed for bands, but i think you overestimate how genuine they are. I mean, most metal bands are serious musicians who take making their music seriously. But, you'd have difficulty distinguishing most power/folk metal musicians off stage from a black metal musician, they're just regular passionate fans of the music as well. I do find it interesting that you mention mainstream vs black metal, because some would actually say the same about a lot of the bands you like. Namely the bestial black metal and war metal scenes. Not that i agree, but just pointing that out to show you that especially with black metal being genuine is a matter of perspective.

 

[Music Alchemist]

I'd point out venom for example, their music hasnt aged well but they were hugely influencial despite not being serious about the themes of their music. I like a lot of what i saw you listed for bands, but i think you overestimate how genuine they are. I mean, most metal bands are serious musicians who take making their music seriously. But, you'd have difficulty distinguishing most power/folk metal musicians off stage from a black metal musician, they're just regular passionate fans of the music as well. I do find it interesting that you mention mainstream vs black metal, because some would actually say the same about a lot of the bands you like. Namely the bestial black metal and war metal scenes. Not that i agree, but just pointing that out to show you that especially with black metal being genuine is a matter of perspective.

 
All true. I didn't mean to imply that metal fans are angry all the time. I know most of us are pretty nice people. But when you are creating extreme metal, you tend to have to tap into aggressive energy, know what I mean? And again, I do love all metal genres, though not all metal bands/albums/songs.

 

[phrozenspite]

All true. I didn't mean to imply that metal fans are angry all the time. I know most of us are pretty nice people. But when you are creating extreme metal, you tend to have to tap into aggressive energy, know what I mean? And again, I do love all metal genres, though not all metal bands/albums/songs.

Yeah i definitely know where you're coming from, black metal is a favorite of mine. Have you ever seen the documentary Global Metal? There was a particular scene that came to mind(highly recommended if you havent), where various bands from israel are being interviewed and they talk about their opinion for the typical canon of black metal topics just being stories that were handed down, and not being real as opposed to the horror of suicide bombers showing up because they hate you. Ah found it on youtube, https://youtube.com/watch?v=26JYZkNXVIo