[bavinck]

I think maiden really started what we call metal today.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I think maiden really started what we call metal today.

 
 
 

For me it started here, but I suffer from Heavy Metal Myopia.
 
 

 

[sludgeogre]

 
Ah, yes, that's to be expected in the wonderful world of Head-Fi. We can all agree that preference is king. I understand why people like other types of headphones, and plenty of them sound great. It's just that STAX is the only thing I've heard that sounds real to me, and I've been a musician (vocals, guitar, piano, trombone) more or less my entire life. But it's not the type of thing to use if you don't want to hear how awful some recordings really are. The nice thing about headphones like the HE1000 and HD 650 (and I'm assuming Audeze too, considering everything I've read about them) is that they sound good with virtually everything. As for me, I just want as much accuracy as possible, so it's all about priorities, I guess.
 
Thank ya! I try to hold back, because otherwise I'd be sharing music every few minutes, and that's more or less without even looking for material outside of my own collection. Oh, and I'm sure you've noticed that I like all types of metal in addition to BM. I'm just a lot less knowledgeable about some of it. I've been meaning to get more into tech death.

Indeed, we're all going to differ. I'm still struggling with how many people don't like the Oppo PM-3 with metal. It's kinda weird to me.
 
I still haven't heard STAX headphones yet, but everything I have heard that's supposed to be neutral or bright leaning has not been great for me. I rarely use my Grados anymore.
 
You are totally right that a great part of the LCD-2 is that it makes everything sound good, even crappy recordings. I don't listen to many crappy recordings, and I'm actually pretty picky with production (especially after getting into this hobby), but it makes the stuff that I don't really care for that much and makes it incredible.
 
I'm different when it comes to home theater, though. I prefer total accuracy and detail, which is why I went with Ascend speakers with RAAL tweeters and Rythmik sealed servo subwoofers. My Dad has a Triad setup and I really like it, but I've always felt like something was missing, and with speakers that have such great and flat treble extension, everything really does sound real. It's gripping. I watch movies without getting distracted or playing on my phone, I love it, but with music, especially at work and while I'm doing stuff at home, I prefer that it just sound awesome and beautiful as often as possible, and if that means losing a little bit of realism, then so be it.
 
Indeed, you're about as eclectic as they get, but we all have our favored genre(s).
 
Speaking of tech death, I love Arkaik and their new album and I can't stop listening to this song:
 

 

[Redcarmoose]

  Indeed, we're all going to differ. I'm still struggling with how many people don't like the Oppo PM-3 with metal. It's kinda weird to me.
 
I still haven't heard STAX headphones yet, but everything I have heard that's supposed to be neutral or bright leaning has not been great for me. I rarely use my Grados anymore.
 
You are totally right that a great part of the LCD-2 is that it makes everything sound good, even crappy recordings. I don't listen to many crappy recordings, and I'm actually pretty picky with production (especially after getting into this hobby), but it makes the stuff that I don't really care for that much and makes it incredible.
 
I'm different when it comes to home theater, though. I prefer total accuracy and detail, which is why I went with Ascend speakers with RAAL tweeters and Rythmik sealed servo subwoofers. My Dad has a Triad setup and I really like it, but I've always felt like something was missing, and with speakers that have such great and flat treble extension, everything really does sound real. It's gripping. I watch movies without getting distracted or playing on my phone, I love it, but with music, especially at work and while I'm doing stuff at home, I prefer that it just sound awesome and beautiful as often as possible, and if that means losing a little bit of realism, then so be it.
 
Indeed, you're about as eclectic as they get, but we all have our favored genre(s).
 
Speaking of tech death, I love Arkaik and their new album and I can't stop listening to this song:
 

That album is in my iPod for use atm.

 

[sludgeogre]

That album is in my iPod for use atm.

Awesome. The last song on the album is extra super terrible, so of course it's the one they made into a music video. Bands I like always seem to make their worst song on the album into a video. Anyway, it's really repetitive and deathcore and terrible. They can't all be winners.

 

[bavinck]

For me it started here, but I suffer from Heavy Metal Myopia.

 

I think they invented heavy music or heavy metal for sure. But the new wave of British heavy metal ala maiden seems like where we got out modern definition of "metal" .

 

[sludgeogre]

I still say Johnny Cash invented the concept of death metal.
 
"I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"
 
Death. Metal.
 
As far as music, I thought this was really cool. I was born in 85 so I came to metal through my cousin and brother who gave me their old Kiss tapes, which I became addicted to, and later attached myself to my brother's music and grew from there. Awesome to hear what it was like to experience Reign In Blood when it came out. Puts it into perspective.
 

  What happens though is some bands put out music at some point in their life which becomes part of actually who you are. Slayer in 85-86 was that band for me. In 85-86 there was no other term but Heavy Metal and Trash Metal. The term Heavy Metal was only four years old in use, before that it was just hard rock. Even Judas Priest with Stained Class (Feb 1978) was hard rock, not called Heavy Metal. Then in 1986 Slayer released Reign In Blood which took everything to even a different level. They outdid themselves in their own self-created genre. How many bands do that, ever? The sound was so different that it was hard to grasp, light bright sun!
 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Indeed, we're all going to differ. I'm still struggling with how many people don't like the Oppo PM-3 with metal. It's kinda weird to me.
 
I still haven't heard STAX headphones yet, but everything I have heard that's supposed to be neutral or bright leaning has not been great for me. I rarely use my Grados anymore.
 
You are totally right that a great part of the LCD-2 is that it makes everything sound good, even crappy recordings. I don't listen to many crappy recordings, and I'm actually pretty picky with production (especially after getting into this hobby), but it makes the stuff that I don't really care for that much and makes it incredible.
 
I'm different when it comes to home theater, though. I prefer total accuracy and detail, which is why I went with Ascend speakers with RAAL tweeters and Rythmik sealed servo subwoofers. My Dad has a Triad setup and I really like it, but I've always felt like something was missing, and with speakers that have such great and flat treble extension, everything really does sound real. It's gripping. I watch movies without getting distracted or playing on my phone, I love it, but with music, especially at work and while I'm doing stuff at home, I prefer that it just sound awesome and beautiful as often as possible, and if that means losing a little bit of realism, then so be it.
 
Indeed, you're about as eclectic as they get, but we all have our favored genre(s).
 
Speaking of tech death, I love Arkaik and their new album and I can't stop listening to this song:

 
Oh, you haven't? Let me put it this way. I spent hours (on very high-end systems with my own test tracks in most genres) with some of the best headphones out there such as the Abyss, HE1000, HE6, HD 800, etc...and owned around 50 headphones including the HE400i, HD 650, and HD 700...but once I got entry-level STAX systems (yes, multiple ones, ha!) it made all those uber-expensive headphones sound lo-fi in comparison! Not in every category or anything like that. The affordable STAX models don't have the technicalities (like soundstage and so on) of the flagships. But as far as transparency, neutrality, realism, etc. goes, there's no comparison to my ears. And I haven't even heard high-end STAX yet. O_O
 
Also bear in mind that I can't stand overly bright/harsh headphones. Many headphones said to be neutral are actually really bright. For example, the HD 800 would be neutral if not for two things: there is a (not so extreme) peak at 6 kHz and the mids are scooped out...so ironically it's not the treble itself that is causing the brightness, but simply an imbalance at lower frequencies which emphasizes higher frequencies to the point of potential physical pain. The STAX SR-207 isn't like that at all: no recessed mids, no peak in the presence region. Easily the most balanced, neutral thing I've heard. And the STAX SR-30 is actually rolled-off a bit (so more dark than bright) with a more mid-centric sound. Another example of a painfully bright, harsh headphone is the Sony MDR-7506. For whatever reason, lots of people think it's neutral simply because it's used in studios.
 
...Sorry for the little rant. Maybe once you get to hear STAX you'll understand why I get so excited. =D
 
I don't think I'll even start getting into speakers until I'm in a situation where I'd be able to blast any type of music at any time and any volume with no worries about neighbors making complaints about noise. I prefer the intimate presentation of headphones for now.
 
About how eclectic I am...I'll literally go from girly pop music to extreme metal at the drop of a hat, then move on to neoclassical or whatever I'm in the mood for. XD
 
I'm usually not picky with production. There's so much amazing music out there that isn't recorded/produced very well.
 
Since you're somewhat averse to black metal, I wonder what you'd think of Hate Forest. Although it's black metal, the vocals are more deep and monstrous than most death metal (which is very unusual for BM), and there are some brutal blast beat sections and other types of epicness. Here are three highlight tracks. (Horrible production, though!)
 


 

 

[Redcarmoose]

Oh, you haven't? Let me put it this way. I spent hours (on very high-end systems with my own test tracks in most genres) with some of the best headphones out there such as the Abyss, HE1000, HE6, HD 800, etc...and owned around 50 headphones including the HE400i, HD 650, and HD 700...but once I got entry-level STAX systems (yes, multiple ones, ha!) it made all those uber-expensive headphones sound lo-fi in comparison! Not in every category or anything like that. The affordable STAX models don't have the technicalities (like soundstage and so on) of the flagships. But as far as transparency, neutrality, realism, etc. goes, there's no comparison to my ears. And I haven't even heard high-end STAX yet. O_O

Also bear in mind that I can't stand overly bright/harsh headphones. Many headphones said to be neutral are actually really bright. For example, the HD 800 would be neutral if not for two things: there is a (not so extreme) peak at 6 kHz and the mids are scooped out...so ironically it's not the treble itself that is causing the brightness, but simply an imbalance at lower frequencies which emphasizes higher frequencies to the point of potential physical pain. The STAX SR-207 isn't like that at all: no recessed mids, no peak in the presence region. Easily the most balanced, neutral thing I've heard. And the STAX SR-30 is actually rolled-off a bit (so more dark than bright) with a more mid-centric sound. Another example of a painfully bright, harsh headphone is the Sony MDR-7506. For whatever reason, lots of people think it's neutral simply because it's used in studios.

...Sorry for the little rant. Maybe once you get to hear STAX you'll understand why I get so excited. =D

I don't think I'll even start getting into speakers until I'm in a situation where I'd be able to blast any type of music at any time and any volume with no worries about neighbors making complaints about noise. I prefer the intimate presentation of headphones for now.

About how eclectic I am...I'll literally go from girly pop music to extreme metal at the drop of a hat, then move on to neoclassical or whatever I'm in the mood for. XD

I'm usually not picky with production. There's so much amazing music out there that isn't recorded/produced very well.

Since you're somewhat averse to black metal, I wonder what you'd think of Hate Forest. Although it's black metal, the vocals are more deep and monstrous than most death metal (which is very unusual for BM), and there are some brutal blast beat sections and other types of epicness. Here are three highlight tracks. (Horrible production, though!)




 

Will you post your thoughts on the HD800s when you experience it? I actually went to a meet once with the main goal of getting the HD800. It was there with an early t-shirt mod. It was there also with a $500 pair of aftermarket cables. I was able to listen to all the phones with my own music with my reference system and had time, as there were no lines of people around. Basicly left in a big room with all this equipment. Then someone walked in set me up with a limited edition DSOTM pressing and plugged the headphones into 80K worth of gear. I put the HD800s on and sat back in this big couch to experience the whole first side. This single afternoon had all the members exit the vinyl room where I was and concentrate in the digital and STAX rooms.

Afterwords I felt I had done my job to investigate the HD800s. I was amazed at the environment they created for DSOTM, still they were missing a warmth I was looking for. They were just slightly too cold. It excites me to hear they may have worked them to become more musical. The day I demoed the original HD800, I used two tube amps and vinyl, so I knew there was no way to get them a warmer feed. I can only imagine how sterile they would be with a bright source and solid state amp?

 

[Music Alchemist]

Will you post your thoughts on the HD800s when you experience it? I actually went to a meet once with the main goal of getting the HD800. It was there with an early t-shirt mod. It was there also with a $500 pair of aftermarket cables. I was able to listen to all the phones with my own music with my reference system and had time, as there were no lines of people around. Basicly left in a big room with all this equipment. Then someone walked in set me up with a limited edition DSOTM pressing and plugged the headphones into 80K worth of gear. I put the HD800s on and sat back in this big couch to experience the whole first side. This single afternoon had all the members exit the vinyl room where I was and concentrate in the digital and STAX rooms.

Afterwords I felt I had done my job to investigate the HD800s. I was amazed at the environment they created for DSOTM, still they were missing a warmth I was looking for. They were just slightly too cold. It excites me to hear they may have worked them to become more musical. The day I demoed the original HD800, I used two tube amps and vinyl, so I knew there was no way to get them a warmer feed. I can only imagine how sterile they would be with a bright source and solid state amp?

 
I'm confused by your "when you experience it" comment, since the post you replied to contained a few of my thoughts about my experience with it.
 
I am currently not interested in the HD 800 or HD 800 S. The HD 800 is a great headphone and just needs EQ, modifications, and/or a tube amp to get a more accurate (or otherwise more enjoyable) frequency response. A parametric equalizer is the most efficient option, as it doesn't cost a penny.
 
So you remember how I posted that link to my new thread about my internal hard drive sounding a lot better than my external hard drive array? I'm listening to Slugdge, Twilight, Shining, Rotting Christ, and Antaeus and can't even believe how much better it sounds now. It's even more apparent with high-fidelity acoustic recordings.

 

[swspiers]

What happens though is some bands put out music at some point in their life which becomes part of actually who you are. Slayer in 85-86 was that band for me. In 85-86 there was no other term but Heavy Metal and Trash Metal. The term Heavy Metal was only four years old in use, before that it was just hard rock. Even Judas Priest with Stained Class (Feb 1978) was hard rock, not called Heavy Metal. Then in 1986 Slayer released Reign In Blood which took everything to even a different level. They outdid themselves in their own self-created genre. How many bands do that, ever? The sound was so different that it was hard to grasp, light bright sun!
 

 
 
 
But Slayer was something different. Plus we never had that agression or guitar sound before. Add giant speakers (Altec-Lansing 12" X 4 with horns) and beer, a big amp and no regard for neighbors! The essence of it all.
 
 
 
So even when they came out with dumb records in the mid-nighties, I never thought any less of them. How could I, with the gift they gave me?

No way, guys. You're both way off on when "Heavy Metal" was used.

Heck, as early as 1976 People Magazine was using the term "Heavy Metal" in a write-up on Led Zeppelin. (I can't believe I remember this article, BTW. But it's the only People I ever bought, LOL!)

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20067240,00.html

I was using the term as early as 1974. Not sure where you guys grew up, but Fremont, Ohio is not exactly a cultural trend-setter. Heck, I remember reviewers writing as early as 1979 that Heavy Metal was dead already!

 

[swspiers]

First album 1974, formed in 1972...

 

[Redcarmoose]

I'm confused by your "when you experience it" comment, since the post you replied to contained a few of my thoughts about my experience with it.

I am currently not interested in the HD 800 or HD 800 S. The HD 800 is a great headphone and just needs EQ, modifications, and/or a tube amp to get a more accurate (or otherwise more enjoyable) frequency response. A parametric equalizer is the most efficient option, as it doesn't cost a penny.

So you remember how I posted that link to my new thread about my internal hard drive sounding a lot better than my external hard drive array? I'm listening to Slugdge, Twilight, Shining, Rotting Christ, and Antaeus and can't even believe how much better it sounds now. It's even more apparent with high-fidelity acoustic recordings.

I'm only asking if you have heard the NEW HD 800S, the new black one. I know your reference to the old one, I agree. It's just that I'm curious as to how much they "fixed" it?


Source stuff is completely very strange. I totally agree that there could be a difference. The fact that you found it, is maybe a hole in our understanding of computer audio. There is a gray area we live where we don't want to come off as silly talking about USB cables being different, and power off the grid sounding best from 2AM till 5AM, but it may be true.

The problem is after your think something is true you almost need a blind test to prove it because thinking can cause a reverse placebo. Every source sounds different to me. I have a couple laptops and USB sounds different out of them.

Still I found out I was not imagining things because WASAPI cleaned up my Windows laptop issues, so they were there. Before that I would swear Apple was better, but now with WASAPI both are much closer.

The truth is our hearing and understanding of the pace of music is much more sensitive than maybe many think. I'm always surprised, but at times I get confused. I have a CD and a MP3 of the same album and for what ever reason can't tell if the CD sounds better, even though it should. You would think placebo would at least make you think MP3 was lesser sounding, but not with the self-test I did.


The stuff that we question is why those USB signal purification systems seem to work. The fact that it was only 2012, four years ago when people still did not know if asynchronous was better. Then even now you have people with old DACs from 2000 that they use that they like best with a CD transport and digital RCA or Optical, boycotting USB.


The facts I think is everyone is susceptible to different flaws. Some notice timing more, some like less detail and warm DACs, will still others wanting cold, clear detailed DACs.


There is maybe no test, unless you get the same file on both drives and have a friend switch them and see if you really can hear a difference. I skimmed over your original post in the thread you started, but did not see that.

I never listen to music off external hard drives so it does not effect me. Still you would think there would be more noticing it. The other question is if the issues could be trimmed-up with a USB filter, like that Wyrd thing Schiit audio sells.


Edit:

I just read your thread on external hard drives, you should implement WASAPI support. It could maybe clear up your issues getting your files from external drives.



Also you should just let members ask you to do double blind tests as we have all fallen victim to our wrong perceptions at times, we are all humans here.


Still if you are right it's a big deal for the community in general. Thousands and thousands of members investing thousands maybe millions in better equipment for better sound but have a digital bottleneck right at the start.


Every system is its own thing. WASAPI takes 3 seconds to set up, you should.

 

[Redcarmoose]

No way, guys. You're both way off on when "Heavy Metal" was used.

Heck, as early as 1976 People Magazine was using the term "Heavy Metal" in a write-up on Led Zeppelin. (I can't believe I remember this article, BTW. But it's the only People I ever bought, LOL!)

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20067240,00.html

I was using the term as early as 1974. Not sure where you guys grew up, but Fremont, Ohio is not exactly a cultural trend-setter. Heck, I remember reviewers writing as early as 1979 that Heavy Metal was dead already!

What about this song from 1968. Pretty sure the first time the term was used in popular culture, though I could be wrong?


STEPPENWOLF
Born To Be Wild Lyrics

Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
Looking for adventure
In whatever comes our way

Yeah, darlin'
Gonna make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once
And explode into space


I like smoke and lightnin'
Heavy metal thunder
Racing in the wind
And the feeling that I'm under

Yeah, darlin'
Gonna make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once
And explode into space

Like a true nature's child
We were born
Born to be wild
We can climb so high
I never wanna die
Born to be wild
Born to be wild

Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
Looking for adventure
In whatever comes our way

Yeah, darlin'
Gonna make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once
And explode into space

Like a true natures child
We were born
Born to be wild
We can climb so high
I never wanna die
Born to be wild
Born to be wild










Beat that one?

 

[swspiers]

No way, guys. You're both way off on when "Heavy Metal" was used.

Heck, as early as 1976 People Magazine was using the term "Heavy Metal" in a write-up on Led Zeppelin. (I can't believe I remember this article, BTW. But it's the only People I ever bought, LOL!)

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20067240,00.html

I was using the term as early as 1974. Not sure where you guys grew up, but Fremont, Ohio is not exactly a cultural trend-setter. Heck, I remember reviewers writing as early as 1979 that Heavy Metal was dead already!

What about this song from 1968. Pretty sure the first time the term was used in popular culture, though I could be wrong?


STEPPENWOLF
Born To Be Wild Lyrics

Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
Looking for adventure
In whatever comes our way

Yeah, darlin'
Gonna make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once
And explode into space


I like smoke and lightnin'
Heavy metal thunder
Racing in the wind
And the feeling that I'm under

Yeah, darlin'
Gonna make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once
And explode into space

Like a true nature's child
We were born
Born to be wild
We can climb so high
I never wanna die
Born to be wild
Born to be wild

Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
Looking for adventure
In whatever comes our way

Yeah, darlin'
Gonna make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once
And explode into space

Like a true natures child
We were born
Born to be wild
We can climb so high
I never wanna die
Born to be wild
Born to be wild










Beat that one?

Oh heck yeah, but they were referring to motorcycles, not the music. there's a lot of debate on when the term was first used in reference to a style of music. Sabbath's "Paranoid" comes to mind, but I can't back it up yet. It might have been applied to Blue Cheer or Iron Butterfly though. Work is getting in the way of this vital research, LOL :mad:

I actually take this topic seriously, BTW.