[keepitsimple]

COULDNT U JUST BELT DANCE 2 THIS

Got taken home by my son the other day for doing the dead fly at a wedding-old punx never die
was ill the nxt day

 

[Redcarmoose]

Really great list. I'm still a newbie in black metal. I thought draconian is gothic doom metal.

 
 
I'm not an expert like some are. It's not even my main genre of study. Point with the list is that yes, some is BM some not, because all genres cross-influence. Also some music defies genre either in whole or in places.
 
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Oranssi_Pazuzu/3540279710
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Tulus/1378
 
Here are two bands I did not list on my list above. Mainly because I have only heard one album by each band. Tulus is an experimental band which mixes classical into the mix. My point with the two above links are that Tulus is boring and Oranssi Pazuzu is not. So if he is only posting bands he likes because they thrill him, I will give him credit. Still there is more to it to try and explain the experimental progress of BM.
 
 
Tulus may be on hold as some of the members are in Khold, which is basic black and not experimental at all. Oranssi Pazuzu he lists and I agree it is a big jump for the genre with them.
 
I read his article a couple of times to try and understand what he is doing. I'm no writer but I feel what subject he has taken to write about is close to impossible to write about. So in a way after reading his work a couple more times he is pointing out only the bands he thinks are cutting edge. He then takes some detours into Theology and keeps going back into the history. If you read his first paragraph he makes it sound like he is going to explain this "third wave" only. But again it's an almost impossible thing to do without going back to second wave ideas and albums.
 
 
Still everyone can only report on their own views as the scope of the thing is so big. Music Alchemist is better for this talk than I. Still my list is an example of how every album has moved BM into what we have today. The best part of what he writes is that BM has a few traditional rules but is also open-ended for change with-in and outside of those rules. I just think I would not try to bite off that big of a bite to chew. All I can do is make a small list, though I could point out what sections of parts those albums in the list take the genre one step forward. When music goes forward it is fresh and new. Still the newness would be only one persons opinion in reference to what they have been exposed to.

 

[Zyklonius]

  Good read here
 
http://metalstorm.net/pub/article.php?article_id=1686

 

Found the paper interesting but you can tell the guy was very proud of himself like he only wanted to talk about certain bands. I know the subject of BM advancing is a giant, giant subject but the writer only talked about the bands he wanted to, like only they were the changers, when in reality he left out 98% of what really took place. His complete fragment of knowledge is to him complete when it is not and misleading to him himself.

Example: He goes on about his timeline from 93-95 to 2000 and mentions two or three bands, not really saying anything but hot air. He goes on later and backtracks with a couple bands but never going into exactly why or how they changed the scene, basically a name dropper. Truthful in that Burzum reinvented himself later on but I guess that name was not obscure enough to make it into his talk even though he single handedly invented atmospheric BM. Ah? A slight move forward, slightly??

A person shouldn't write an article like they think they know what they are talking about when clueless. Literally it does not even qualify as a persons opinion it's so simplistic.

To prove my point my next post will be my top 50 albums that moved it along.

 
For those interested in the genesis and evolution of BM, I can warmly recommend Dayal Patterson's Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult. Dozens of fascinating interviews, also with lesser known bands and fringe luminaries, mostly in Norway but also elsewhere.
 
Kudos for the metal storm article writer for referencing The Meads of Apshodel. The Murder of Jesus the Jew and Sonderkommando are real mind trips, especially with the meticulously researched background material. 

 

[Redcarmoose]

   
 
For those interested in the genesis and evolution of BM, I can warmly recommend Dayal Patterson's Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult. Dozens of fascinating interviews, also with lesser known bands and fringe luminaries, mostly in Norway but also elsewhere.
 
Kudos for the metal storm article writer for referencing The Meads of Apshodel. The Murder of Jesus the Jew and Sonderkommando are real mind trips, especially with the meticulously researched background material. 

HAHA, I know your the guy here into experimental BM. Cheers!

 

[keepitsimple]

 

[Redcarmoose]

 
 
I don't know if everyone has viewed these lists of classical composers, I can only guess it helps a person to understand cross influences? We need one for metal.This is a simple one.

 

[Redcarmoose]

[VIDEO]. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dLPvfmbVdJg [/VIDEO]

 

[Music Alchemist]

Not to be elitist or anything but, everything experimental brings it along one album at a time.
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Filosofem Burzum
Sons of Northern Darkness Immortal
De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas Mayhem
Grand Declaration of War Mayhem
Rebel Extravaganza Satyricon
Stormblast Dimmu Borgir
Thorns Thorns
666 International Dodheimsgard
Hellfire 1349
Sideshow Symphonies Arcturus
Isa Enslaved
Frost Enslaved
Incipit Satan Gorgoroth
Generator Aborym
Theogonia Rotting Christ
Si Monumentum Requires Circumspice Deathspell Omega
Fas-Ite, Maledicti, In Ignem Aeternum Deathspell Omega
The Work Which Transforms God Blut Aus Nord
Andacht Lunar Aurora
Storm of the Light's Bane Dissection
Cases Luciferi Watain
The Somberlain Dissection
Sheol Naglfar
Pariah Naglfar
Nightwing Marduk
Rom 5:12 Marduk
Wormwood Marduk
Plague Angel Marduk
Vobisscum Satanas Dark Funeral
Roads To Judah Deafheaven
Devilry Funeral Mist
Upon Promeathean Shores Hecate Enthoned
Heart Of Ages In The Woods
Waters of Weeping Black Funeral
Massive Conspiracy Against All Life Leviathan
Telepathic With The Deceased Xasthur
Profanatitas de Domonatia Profanatica
Reign of Light Samael
In Somniphonia Sigh
Black One Sunn O)))
Legion Deicide
Drawing Down The Moon Beherit
A Shadowplay for Yesterdays A Forrest Of Stars
Beware the Sword You Cannot See A Forrest Of Stars
V-Halmstad Shining
Blackwater Park Opeth
Ashes Against The Grain Agalloch
The Mantle Agalloch
Crimson Edge Of Sanity
Anthems To The Welkin At Dusk Emperor
Arcane Rain Fell Draconian

 
Good list, but I was gonna ask why the F Opeth is in there. XD I thought this was a black metal list, but maybe it's just a list of things you consider to be groundbreaking even if they're not all BM. I mean, Sunn O))) is listed too.
 

  I'm not an expert like some are. It's not even my main genre of study. Point with the list is that yes, some is BM some not, because all genres cross-influence. Also some music defies genre either in whole or in places.
  Still everyone can only report on their own views as the scope of the thing is so big. Music Alchemist is better for this talk than I. Still my list is an example of how every album has moved BM into what we have today. The best part of what he writes is that BM has a few traditional rules but is also open-ended for change with-in and outside of those rules. I just think I would not try to bite off that big of a bite to chew. All I can do is make a small list, though I could point out what sections of parts those albums in the list take the genre one step forward. When music goes forward it is fresh and new. Still the newness would be only one persons opinion in reference to what they have been exposed to.

 
Ahhh, I get it now.
 
Man, I wouldn't even know where to begin in giving someone an introduction to black metal from my perspective. As with any type of music, it's like an ocean. There are so many ecosystems and creatures competing and coexisting with each other, developing adaptations to better cope with their environment, and so on.
 
Since I am incredibly lazy, I'm just gonna point and nod at this for a brief overview of the genre:
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_metal
 
And of course, there's that favorite metal bands list of mine that I actually haven't linked to in awhile. A good portion of 'em are BM. This is for you, @ColonelBucket8:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/397407/lets-talk-metal/15210#post_10717867

 

[Redcarmoose]

Good list, but I was gonna ask why the F Opeth is in there. XD I thought this was a black metal list, but maybe it's just a list of things you consider to be groundbreaking even if they're not all BM. I mean, Sunn O))) is listed too.


Ahhh, I get it now.

Man, I wouldn't even know where to begin in giving someone an introduction to black metal from my perspective. As with any type of music, it's like an ocean. There are so many ecosystems and creatures competing and coexisting with each other, developing adaptations to better cope with their environment, and so on.

Since I am incredibly lazy, I'm just gonna point and nod at this for a brief overview of the genre:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_metal

And of course, there's that favorite metal bands list of mine that I actually haven't linked to in awhile. A good portion of 'em are BM. This is for you, @ColonelBucket8
:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/397407/lets-talk-metal/15210#post_10717867

I knew you would respond to this topic. I could be doing it wrong but I just put a fast list together. The truth is I think there was a lot of experimental stuff in the second wave which is maybe not even cared about now like Abruptum. To me a huge % of the second wave sounded experimental? I put Opeth in because it has BM influences, listen to Orchid. To me Ulver was completely experimental. And the influences are everywhere. One good way maybe to recognize a success is how many are so influenced by your originality. But I put a Deicide record and some industrial too. Maybe not 100% BM, but BM is not 100% BM.

The best way to actually do it and stick with the third wave is have 10 people all make lists with details then fold them together, just because everyone can't hear all the music, especially the fringe Black Metal that is rare, but possibly cutting edge. So most bands now don't even play straight up 2nd wave. It is debatable what the third wave really is, or it's all Black Metal made now. But it is thrash influenced and death influenced and jazz influenced let alone after the outside influences which hybrid forms then go on to influence new BM bands?

100% of Drum and Bass is from one 6 second drum break. Yep, millions of people in the subculture, 100,000 songs or so all made from the Amen Break which is a small 6 second experimental drum break on an 45 rpm record from the 1960s by a band called the Winstons. So in dance music it may be about the current beat, but this 6 seconds was mashed up in every direction.

All and all you should read the Metal Storm write-up and put in your two cents. Is it complete to say that he has posted the most influential experimental third wave bands that are the most cutting edge? If so then I'm wrong. I knew of half his list well and 25% I had heard and 25% I had not heard. Are they a complete list? I could be wrong here?

 

[Music Alchemist]

I knew you would respond to this topic. I could be doing it wrong but I just put a fast list together. The truth is I think there was a lot of experimental stuff in the second wave which is maybe not even cared about now like Abruptum. To me a huge % of the second wave sounded experimental? I put Opeth in because it has BM influences, listen to Orchid. To me Ulver was completely experimental. And the influences are everywhere. One good way maybe to recognize a success is how many are so influenced by your originality. But I put a Deicide record and some industrial too. Maybe not 100% BM, but BM is not 100% BM.

The best way to actually do it and stick with the third wave is have 10 people all make lists with details then fold them together, just because everyone can't hear all the music, especially the fringe Black Metal that is rare, but possibly cutting edge.

100% of Drum and Bass is from one 6 second drum break. Yep, millions of people in the subculture, 100,000 songs or so all made from the Amen Break which is a small 6 second experimental drum break on an 45 rpm record from the 1960s by a band called the Winstons. So in dance music it may be about the current beat, but this 6 seconds was mashed up in every direction.

 
Wonderful insights, especially "BM is not 100% BM" -- so true!
 
BM has influences from all over the place: death metal, thrash metal, heavy metal, punk, hardcore, classical, you name it!
 
Ulver just might be the most diverse band I know. I was listening to "Lost In Moments" just last night. Avant-garde ambient jazz + trip hop = win!
 
I'm really into electronic music as well, yet I did not know that about drum and bass.

 

[WraithApe]

100% of Drum and Bass is from one 6 second drum break. Yep, millions of people in the subculture, 100,000 songs or so all made from the Amen Break which is a small 6 second experimental drum break on an 45 rpm record from the 1960s by a band called the Winstons. So in dance music it may be about the current beat, but this 6 seconds was mashed up in every direction.

 
This thread is none of my business really, but if you're going to start bringing into play genres that I do know about, you better get it right 

 
It's not true to say that 100% of drum n bass is based on the Amen break. It's the most famous break, but there are a host of others, including (but not limited to) Think break, Funky Drummer, Machine, The Flow, Plastic Jam and a lot more besides, which also informed the first wave of drum n bass in the early 90s. There are also a host of producers who use original drum programming as opposed to cutting up loops.

 

[Redcarmoose]

This thread is none of my business really, but if you're going to start bringing into play genres that I do know about, you better get it right 

It's not true to say that 100% of drum n bass is based on the Amen break. It's the most famous break, but there are a host of others, including (but not limited to) Think break, Funky Drummer, Machine, The Flow, Plastic Jam and a lot more besides, which also informed the first wave of drum n bass in the early 90s. There are also a host of producers who use original drum programming as opposed to cutting up loops.

So you would say 75% is the break? I only listen to mid1990s to 2000 D&B.

[VIDEO]. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac [/VIDEO]

 

[Music Alchemist]

  This thread is none of my business really, but if you're going to start bringing into play genres that I do know about, you better get it right 

 
It's not true to say that 100% of drum n bass is based on the Amen break. It's the most famous break, but there are a host of others, including (but not limited to) Think break, Funky Drummer, Machine, The Flow, Plastic Jam and a lot more besides, which also informed the first wave of drum n bass in the early 90s. There are also a host of producers who use original drum programming as opposed to cutting up loops.

 
Now that makes more sense.
 
You've probably already heard this, but in case you haven't, I really like this song:
 

Spoiler: Warning: not metal!

 

[WraithApe]

So you would say 75% is the break?

 
Yeah probably - can't really put a figure on it, but definitely a majority of producers use(d) the Amen break, you're right about that. Good knowledge. Don't mind me, I'm just sitting around twiddling my thumbs atm 

 
 
OT:

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

http://www.junglebreaks.co.uk/breaks.html

 

[WraithApe]

Actually, while I'm here, would any of you guys be able to recommend some good new(ish) thrash metal? I do like metal but my tastes are prehistoric and my knowledge of the genre today is virtually non-existent. I'm mainly still stuck in the 80s.