[sludgeogre]

Was there ever any doubt given his thoughts on dynamics in metal?

I don't think Pale Communion is going to be a metal album at all. So far it sounds like a Yes album. I don't have a problem with that, but it's meant to be more naturally dynamic. Also, Steve Wilson is a damn genius and makes the most beautiful stuff out there. The Raven That Refused To Sing is just incredible in every way. He also did Damnation and Deliverance and the DR scores on those are 11 and 10 respectively, and this all makes total sense with how Michael Akerfeldt writes and records songs.
 

THAT is in a nutshell your argument: If it makes your head move and doesn't clip in the process, mission accomplished from a production standpoint. So be it. I'm not going to argue with that.

My position: I truly believe that over time if more metal heads listen to higher dynamic material (like Origin, like Gorguts, like Panopticon, like Swano), they will feel a lot differently about smashed records like the Fallujah one, and recognize all that they are missing. I also believe that if that Fallujah record was also mastered in such a way that not only would it have that wall of sound presence, but it would actually feel viscerally impactful due the natural dynamics that is contained in all music, my fellow Fallujah fan would pick the higher dynamic version every single time, i.e. If everything is LOUD nothing IS. 

 

Yes, well said, that is my position.
 
I love all of the bands you listed and certainly appreciate their style, but unlike you, I'm not going to impose that style as an expectation on the music I listen to. I wouldn't mind if people started making albums sound as unholy gorgeous as Colored Sands, though. I also don't feel anything is "missing" and I don't think that more dynamics necessarily makes the album more "viscerally impactful". If given the option, I probably would pick up the more dynamic version, but I honestly don't care that much, it's up to the band, not me. I'd rather have whatever their purist vision of their music is, unless Dan Swano is making it, then he can choose, because he's Dan Swano.
 
I really understand where you're coming from with the "if everything is loud, nothing is", but you have to respect metal musicians that want everything loud, because, dude, there are a LOT of them.

 

[wrathzombie]

 
Mister Wilson nailed it again

Where did you get that? 
 
Hmm!!! nice

 

[BLACKENEDPLAGUE]

  I don't think Pale Communion is going to be a metal album at all. So far it sounds like a Yes album.

can't wait

 

[Trogdor]

can't wait

Is that a Jack Russell?

 

[Trogdor]

I don't think Pale Communion is going to be a metal album at all. So far it sounds like a Yes album. I don't have a problem with that, but it's meant to be more naturally dynamic. Also, Steve Wilson is a damn genius and makes the most beautiful stuff out there. The Raven That Refused To Sing is just incredible in every way. He also did Damnation and Deliverance and the DR scores on those are 11 and 10 respectively, and this all makes total sense with how Michael Akerfeldt writes and records songs.

And if he mastered the Fallujah record, do you think it would still be DR4? I think we can both agree, probably not.

I love all of the bands you listed and certainly appreciate their style, but unlike you, I'm not going to impose that style as an expectation on the music I listen to. I wouldn't mind if people started making albums sound as unholy gorgeous as Colored Sands, though. I also don't feel anything is "missing" and I don't think that more dynamics necessarily makes the album more "viscerally impactful". If given the option, I probably would pick up the more dynamic version, but I honestly don't care that much, it's up to the band, not me. I'd rather have whatever their purist vision of their music is, unless Dan Swano is making it, then he can choose, because he's Dan Swano.

I really understand where you're coming from with the "if everything is loud, nothing is", but you have to respect metal musicians that want everything loud, because, dude, there are a LOT of them.

I must confess, it's a very strange position to take. On one hand, "you don't care" and on the other "I'd probably pick with the higher dynamic version most of the time" and "it would be awesome if everything sounded unholy gorgeous like Colored Sands" and if a bona fide expert like Dan Swano says that "higher dynamic version is the better sounding one you'll pick that too."

Honestly, re-read what you wrote in its totality. I feel you are a closet dynamics guy but afraid to just admit it!

 

[wrathzombie]

And if he mastered the Fallujah record, do you think it would still be DR4? I think we can both agree, probably not.
I will admit, it's a very strange position you take. On one hand, "you don't care" and on the other "I'd probably pick with the higher dynamic version most of the time" and "it would be awesome if everything sounded unholy gorgeous like Colored Sands" and if a bona fide expert like Dan Swano says that "higher dynamic version is the better sounding one you'll pick that too."

Honestly, re-read what you wrote in its totality. I feel you are a closet dynamics guy but afraid to just admit it!

Closet Dynamics Guy!!! LOL!!!

 

[wrathzombie]

 
can't wait

Remember Remember Storm Corossion !!!!!

 

[BLACKENEDPLAGUE]

  foobar2000 1.3.3 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2014-07-17 22:02:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Immolation / Here In After
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10      -0.38 dB   -10.69 dB      3:54 01-Nailed To Gold
DR10       0.00 dB   -10.65 dB      4:02 02-Burn With Jesus
DR10      -0.21 dB   -10.93 dB      4:55 03-Here In After
DR10      -0.26 dB   -10.92 dB      4:42 04-I Feel Nothing
DR10      -0.27 dB   -10.64 dB      4:45 05-Away From God
DR10      -0.09 dB   -10.67 dB      4:48 06-Towards Earth
DR10      -0.27 dB   -10.78 dB      4:23 07-Under The Supreme
DR10      -0.11 dB   -11.42 dB      5:52 08-Christ's Cage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks:  8
Official DR value: DR10
Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           991 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
================================================================================

 
 
Proof that sheer brutality does not to be shoehorned into your cochlea

 

[sludgeogre]

Honestly, re-read what you wrote in its totality. I feel you are a closet dynamics guy but afraid to just admit it!

I'm just not obsessive about it like you guys. I'll take it when I can get it, but I don't demand dynamics to make a good record. I'm not going to decry a record because the DR is low.
 
Can't I just like both? Haha 

 

[BLACKENEDPLAGUE]

ONE OF US
 
ONE OF US

 

[vanhiel]

I happened to find this thread and saw all the talk about dynamic range...  Anyone else buy as much of their metal on vinyl as possible since it's mastered to have more dynamic range?
 
I'm loving all the metal on vinyl these days.  And well... I enjoy spinning a record more than a cd 

 

[BLACKENEDPLAGUE]

  I happened to find this thread and saw all the talk about dynamic range...  Anyone else buy as much of their metal on vinyl as possible since it's mastered to have more dynamic range?
 
I'm loving all the metal on vinyl these days.  And well... I enjoy spinning a record more than a cd 

 
That's not always the case. The new Massacre album uses the cd master on wax, as well as monolith of inhumanity. HOWEVER, there is a band called Prosanctus Inferi that for whatever reason allowed schiit cd masters go to press then allow a super dynamic press for both the first full length and following EP on wax. I talked to one of the members and he basically condemned the cds.
 
And FYI it's black/death noise wall, but with punch
 
oh and did I mention the vocalist does guitar for Black Funeral?

 

[markm1]

  I'm just not obsessive about it like you guys. I'll take it when I can get it, but I don't demand dynamics to make a good record. I'm not going to decry a record because the DR is low.
 
Can't I just like both? Haha 

Trogor has really educated me on this subject. He's doing  a great service. Fantastic the collaboration on AMG. But, I also get where you're coming from.
 
Playing devil's advocate, sometimes, I get an album that I love, then I read here how the DR is shot to hell, and I think, "oh well, it sounds good to me". I'm not sure I always am capable of hearing the difference w/o charts  to "tell me what to think". I pretty much assume, most metal is going to be compressed to some degree.
 
I'm going to go out and buy the new Boris, because I love this band. I've read here how bad the DR is. But, I'm still going to buy their music, because, I think their sound is so strong that it demands my attention and I suspect it will be one of my favorite releases of the year.
 
That said, when music, any music sounds great-it speaks for itself.

 

[vaed]

I discovered the magic of DR through listening to drumkits on well-mastered vinyl...Vainaja's latest. That. *******. KICK. DRUM. And snare. The impact alone makes me want to headbang my desk into the floor. Nothing is the same after something like that.
 
http://vainaja.bandcamp.com/ (unfortunately this is not the same dynamic master)

 

[Redcarmoose]

Mister Wilson nailed it again

It does sound good. Too bad the music recorded so well is utter crap.