[thegrobe]

Quote:

Hi, 
i just joined this Forum... i'm a musician, and since a few months i'experimenting with binaural recordings... so if you like classical music: 
Live performance of Max Reger, Meine Seele ist still zu Gott
 
Reger meine Seele
 
Best wishes!
 
Bernd

That sounds fantastic! Thanks for sharing

 

[dwareing]

Hi all,
I am developing a new type of dummy head for binaural recording, and am looking for feedback on what works and what does not, from headphoners..
 
I have previously contributed to Ambiophonics and kept the Audio and Three Dimensional Sound Links web resource. ( long since abandoned and pirated..)
 
I will be placing various binaural samples here:
 
http://www.freesound.org/people/dwareing/
 
I would be grateful for any feedback, either there or here.
David.
 

 

[immersifi]

Thanks for the compliments on the Cowboy Junkies show from The Ark. That was quite the night. I wish we had shot video that night as well, but alas, this was not possible. Anyway, I'm pretty happy with how the recording turned out - the one thing that I wish I could change (but accidents do indeed happen) is the gain shift in the FOH mix during "Moonlight Mile". Still, all in all it's a pretty intimate recording.
 
You might also like this recording, made in a very small venue (in this show, the performers were seated in an arc on stage, so the strong left-to-right placement that you will hear on any given track is due to that): http://archive.org/details/CappsDonohoeIannaceJackAndKristLiveAtTheTrinityHouseTheater
 
Note that on the archive.org site, I try to post as much technical detail as possible so that others who may have an interest can read about where the mics were placed etc.
 
There are a few others out there that have posted since then (ones that I have done) and some of these also have video, ironically, from the same venue where the Cowboy Junkies show was recorded. So, here are the links to a few excerpts from a concert featuring a band called Sumkali, and all of the content in the videos from that show is binaural, made with the same type of mannequin head:
 
Akhian Udeekdian:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_oumi50dy0
 
and you can find other excerpts from that show just by browsing the YT site.
 
If you're into Kirtan (call and response chanting), here's another link. This show is (like the CJ show from The Ark) part binaural and part stereo (the stereo component comes from an OSS type of microphone that I designed and fabricated), however, there's a bit more stereo content in this relative to the binaural content. I had to post them on the site at 192 kbps mp3 (file size issues) but they still sound quite good for 192 kbps.  http://kirtanannarbor.org/annarborholidaykirtan2012.cfm
 
Lastly (for now anyway), if you like Sam Roberts Band (Montreal, Canada), you might like this recording from The Fillmore Detroit: http://archive.org/details/SRB2009-11-28
 
This show is anything but acoustic, but it is fully binaural, again, made using a Neumann type KU 100.
 
I hope you enjoy the links...

 

[thegrobe]

Quote:

Thanks for the compliments on the Cowboy Junkies show from The Ark. That was quite the night. I wish we had shot video that night as well, but alas, this was not possible. Anyway, I'm pretty happy with how the recording turned out - the one thing that I wish I could change (but accidents do indeed happen) is the gain shift in the FOH mix during "Moonlight Mile". Still, all in all it's a pretty intimate recording.
 
 

Ah! So you are responsible for that recording! I have really been enjoying that CJ show. It's been getting some good rotation in my listening. I look forward to checking out the other stuff.
 
Thanks!

 

[immersifi]

Yeah...I'm the one alright. I was at a CJ show at The Ark about 14 months prior, and I sat there thinking that "these guys would be great to record in binaural". Fast forward to October 2009, and it all kind of worked out.
 
I have such great memories of that show - from watching the dynamics of the sound check (they were fighting some bizarre room modes that were causing headaches for the bass player which took a long time to fix) to hanging out with some of the band in the alley, having a cigarette, etc. I have to say, being at sound check was great - to have been (literally) 10 feet away from them as they worked through the sound / segues and so on was really cool. The opening act for that night (Lee Harvey Osmond) put on a great show as well, and the pedal-steel player who played in the CJ set sat in on the LHO set, which really rounded out some of the numbers they performed. I have those tracks as well, but they have not officially been 'cleared', so no one's heard them but me...and the cat from Lee Harvey Osmond.
 
Anyway, I'm glad that you liked the CJ recordings.
 
If you want to see / hear a quick demo of binaural + video (if you web search for "A Fun and Simple Binaural Audio Demo (USE HEADPHONES)" you should find it) - I shot a short video (just over two minutes)  with binaural audio. The whole thing is a static camera shot, which is unlike the Sumkali binaural video links (for those links, the camera traveled, but the mannequin head stayed were it was). Anyway, it's a fun, short demo that, by using synchronous video, helps to demonstrate some aspects of binaural localization in the presence of synchronous video.

 

[thegrobe]

Quote:

Yeah...I'm the one alright. I was at a CJ show at The Ark about 14 months prior, and I sat there thinking that "these guys would be great to record in binaural". Fast forward to October 2009, and it all kind of worked out.
 
I have such great memories of that show - from watching the dynamics of the sound check (they were fighting some bizarre room modes that were causing headaches for the bass player which took a long time to fix) to hanging out with some of the band in the alley, having a cigarette, etc. I have to say, being at sound check was great - to have been (literally) 10 feet away from them as they worked through the sound / segues and so on was really cool. The opening act for that night (Lee Harvey Osmond) put on a great show as well, and the pedal-steel player who played in the CJ set sat in on the LHO set, which really rounded out some of the numbers they performed. I have those tracks as well, but they have not officially been 'cleared', so no one's heard them but me...and the cat from Lee Harvey Osmond.
 
Anyway, I'm glad that you liked the CJ recordings.
 
If you want to see / hear a quick demo of binaural + video (if you web search for "A Fun and Simple Binaural Audio Demo (USE HEADPHONES)" you should find it) - I shot a short video (just over two minutes)  with binaural audio. The whole thing is a static camera shot, which is unlike the Sumkali binaural video links (for those links, the camera traveled, but the mannequin head stayed were it was). Anyway, it's a fun, short demo that, by using synchronous video, helps to demonstrate some aspects of binaural localization in the presence of synchronous video.

Cool...thanks for sharing the background story! Good stuff. I will check out that binaural/video demo. Thanks again. 

 

[immersifi]

Thanks for the kudos (on the Cowboy Junkies show).
 
Here are some other concerts that I recorded:
 
Sam Roberts Band (from Montreal, Canada): http://archive.org/details/SRB2009-11-28
 
This show was recorded in The Fillmore Detroit.
 
For a more acoustic experience (even more so than the Cowboy Junkies show), here's an ensemble performance recorded at Trinity House Theater, Livonia, MI., USA.
 
http://archive.org/details/CappsDonohoeIannaceJackAndKristLiveAtTheTrinityHouseTheater
 
Check some of my other posts - I think I linked to the Sumkali show, also recorded at The Ark (Ann Arbor, MI., USA). They are a Indian-fusion-rock-funk band - very unusual stuff. Those links also feature video of the show.
 
Again, thanks for the compliments on the recording.

 

[shipsupt]

Thanks for these.  I'm a big fan of that CJ recording as well. 
 
I'm looking forward to checking these out tonight!!

 

[immersifi]

Quote:

Hi all,
I am developing a new type of dummy head for binaural recording, and am looking for feedback on what works and what does not, from headphoners..
 
I have previously contributed to Ambiophonics and kept the Audio and Three Dimensional Sound Links web resource. ( long since abandoned and pirated..)
 
I will be placing various binaural samples here:
 
http://www.freesound.org/people/dwareing/
 
I would be grateful for any feedback, either there or here.
David.
 
 
Have a look at this thread:
 
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/489576-best-bets-binaural.html
 
I started this back in 2010...and there are several other related discussions on the site as well. However, if you really want more technical detail, you should seek out A.E.S. papers / publications, as well as A.S.A. papers etc. A really good place to start is the A.E.S. Monograph "Binaural Technology" edited by Rozenn Nicol. It's a very handy and concise treatise of binaural. Better still, each section is chock-full of references...so if you really want to dig into the math of it all, there are references that you can find. Trust me...there are volumes of published work on the subject, and many of them will be very helpful in terms of understanding the issues that surround binaural. There's also a nice section on headphones that references the work of Moeller et al (i.e. the "PDR" and "FEC" headphone criteria); I think this would be a very good place to start.
 
Hope this helps...
 
Mark

 

[dwareing]

Quote:

 

Nice to hear from you Mark,
I have read most of your posts on binaural, I think, some several times! I have also seen your patents and heard your recordings.
Impressive, state of the art, stuff, and nice recordings.
On the other hand the AES has had a hundred years or so to perfect binaural and they don't have it working yet..
The AES represents the runt of the Scientific(tm) litter when you consider the progress made in other fields of science.
I have had no feedback, so this does not seem to be the place where people listen to binaural in significant numbers, such a place probably does not exist.
 
BTW, have you seen this gearslutz post?
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-tchad-blake/114741-binaural-head.html#25
Regards,
David.

 

[loud n clear]

Just discovered binaural recording due to this thread. Would recommend looking up Jeff Anderson on YouTube also. He has a great one with fireworks and others.

 

[dwareing]

Quote:

Just discovered binaural recording due to this thread. Would recommend looking up Jeff Anderson on YouTube also. He has a great one with fireworks and others.

I enjoyed his messing with fire in a bottle Immensely.
 
I think you will find my woodpecker file a very good test of headphone imaging when it has beem moderated ( flac download in "birds")
http://www.freesound.org/people/dwareing/packs/11861/

 

[loud n clear]

Nice. It sounds like you live in a nice area. With all these binaural recordings I find it difficult to distinguish between in front and behind. Is that the same for you people? Are you able to pinpoint a 3D location for the sounds? If not, what part of the system of recording and playback do you think is holding us back from this experience?

 

[dwareing]

Quote:

Nice. It sounds like you live in a nice area. With all these binaural recordings I find it difficult to distinguish between in front and behind. Is that the same for you people? Are you able to pinpoint a 3D location for the sounds? If not, what part of the system of recording and playback do you think is holding us back from this experience?

 
I'll get back to you later, but I recommend this for a good, readable insight into the problems of binaural reproduction:
Griesinger-Binaural-Hearing-EarCanals-Headphones.ppt

 

[immersifi]

Quote:

 
I'll get back to you later, but I recommend this for a good, readable insight into the problems of binaural reproduction:
Griesinger-Binaural-Hearing-EarCanals-Headphones.ppt

Localization...the holy grail of recording (and not just for binaural). However, people seem to have higher expectations for binaural (as compared to conventional two-microphone stereo) in terms of its realism, and probably with good reason.
 
Binaural often gets a bad-rap because detractors of it say that front-to-back confusions destroys the realism. Others say that for it to be as realistic as possible, head tracking must be employed. However, there is another component to all of this that is often (and logically) glossed over by audio folks like us, namely, the importance of the visual cortex and the role that it plays in localization. By that I mean that when you consider the physiology of hearing and how we localize, the eyes and the ears are in constant communication. Take this simple example:
 
When you hear a sound - regardless of the direction of origin - and you are not sure where it's coming from, the first response your brain suggests is to look around you. If the source is identified (by looking around) then your brain resolves the ambiguity of where the sound is located - suddenly, everything in the sensory puzzle fits - there is no cognitive dissonance. On the other hand, if you cannot locate the source (such as in the dark or for other reasons, i.e. it is obscured from vision by something else etc) then instinctively - and especially when we can't see the source - we turn our heads. This simple act forces an arrival time difference, as well as an intensity difference, all due to the shape of the person's head, ears, the angle / elevation of their head, and so forth.
 
As a tangential example of the inter-dependence of the visual and auditory cortexes, watch this quick video (McGurk Effect):
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0
 
Interesting, eh? If nothing else this is a pretty good emo of the interdependence of the visual and auditory cortexes.
 
Back to localization...so, when most people hear binaural recordings, they are audio-only recorings, absent the visual cues that would be present in a live performance. However, when you provide synchronous video coupled with the binaural audio, taken from the same position of the mannequin head microphone, the visual component helps to 'anchor' the placement of sound coming from directly in front of you.
 
Exercise #1: Here's a simple example (and yes, you need to use headphones for this). What I would like for you to do is to queue-up this link, and advance the time to around 1:50. After that, press PLAY, and then keep your eyes closed for a while (maybe a minute or so), then, open your eyes. Here is the link:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_oumi50dy0
 
As you watch the video, alternately keep your eyes open and closed.
 
What's interesting here is that the binaural was acquired at the center of the stage; the mannequin was above the crowd, facing the band. The audio that you hear is just the binaural signal (no board feeds). However, what's interesting is that apart from the main PA (directly in front of the mannequin), which constitutes an amplified and time-shifted component (think of the path time from each instrument to the mannequin mic - it is longer than the path from the PA to the mannequin head mic), you can still localize the instruments quite well - not perfectly, but still quite well. Notice how when the camer angle is direct (i.e. facing the musicians) the audio seems to make more 'sense' to your brain, because the visual perspective being presented to you is closely aligned with the auditory stimulus (the binaural component).
 
Now here's anotehr interesting element of this video. I made the point about some sound coming through the mains PA as opposed the natural, acoustic radiation of the instrument. Go back to the Sumkali video, and watch - and listen - VERY carefully right around the 3:50 mark. Watch the singer at far right. As he sings, (roughly at the 3:52 mark), he tilts his head upward, and pulls back from the microphone. When he does this, two things happen. First, the amplified portion of his voice is momentarily attenuated (by moving away from the mic). Second, by tilting his head upward, he is effectively singing directly towards the right ear of the mannequin mic, in essence, this is his acoustical radiation component (un-amplified). As you listen and watch, you will hear the apparent location of his voice momentarily move from the center, more towards the right. This happens a couple more times in the video, and once you have seen / noticed this at the 3:50 mark, it becomes easier to spot this in the rest of the video (I think this also happens to varying degrees when he is singing around the 1:25 mark).
 
If the Sumkali show had been purely acoustic (no PA whatsoever) with the musicians situated in the same arrangement (and the mannequin head located in the same place), then there would be even more natural localization of the musicians and their instruments. However, it's the PA itself that causes much of the smearing of the image (again, due to the path differences between the instruments (their acoustically radiated component) and the sound of the instruments that came through the PA.
 
What's interesting (to me anyway) is that when I just listen to the recording, the image is stable. However, when I watch the video, the image seems most realistic when the camera angle is the direct one (pointed at the stage), and when I see the video from the roving camera, then I actually experience a bit of cognitive dissonance - because the camera angle and perspective are not consistent with the auditory element.
 
It's an interesting subject...and it would be very interesting indeed to compare how well people localize recordings, made at essentially the same location, using (for example) ORT, Blumlein, binaural or oterh formats, and then asked to rate them in terms of accuracy of localization - first, based on the audio alone, and then with accompanying video. I'm really curious to see how our perceived localization is influence by the two-channel technique of choice unto itself as compared to being presented with synchronous and representative stimuli. Would realism be be perceived as 'better' for all formats? That is, would people say the localization for all types of two-channel sound are better when they are watching the video as compared to when they only hear the audio, but don't see the video? I wonder...and I wonder if any one method would be perceived as having the highest (statictically significant) realism as compared to the other formats.